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April 26, 2004

Comments

Donald R. McClarey

By their fruits ye shall know them.

Clayton

Sounds like a scene from the Passion of the Christ...

al

100% true. As I said below, the frenzied rage was like nothing so much as a dramatization of Euripedes' Bacchae. And the more humble or intimate the expression of sorrow or disapproval, the more fanatical the response from the "protestors"

Charles M. de Nunzio

My comments are here.

Mark Shea

The People of the Lie.

Charles M. de Nunzio

By the way, does anyone know where one can find uncensored photos of this march, in which we can see all these humanoid monstrosities vomiting out their messages of hate while carrying signs reflecting their foul-mouthed mentalities?

In other words, the real spirit of the march, which the media whitewash for our benefit?

Steve

I haven't read everyones remarks thoroughly yet, but let me just say Thank You!

Thank you for having the courage,conviction, and devotion to the unborn to actually go to this thing and do what you did for them!Then to go on standing there silently while people screamed, spit and threw things at you? Amy,
you have got what is known in the vernacular as
kahunas!

You have my admiration,respect and thanks.

John Farrell

Powerful stuff, Amy. Thank you for your courage, and reminding me why I'm not a "liberal."

Michelle K.

John and Steve, this report is what Emily from the blog "After Abortion" experienced at the March, not what Amy saw.

Colleen

The Ones who got to live.

Richard

Charles,

Try going here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1124310/posts

I warn you: These aren't very edifying shots. But you can see plenty of hate being vomited.

Steve

Doh!
Well, since I didnt know about that Blog,I can feign complete ignorance by way of fatigue from a 6 month old who likes to play at 5:00 AM when you go to change his diaper!

Well Thank you Michelle for pointing that out, and Thank you Amy anyway for the nifty site, the stuff you do and foir the great daily reads in "Living Faith"!! I already read tomorrows!

al

Richard,
I can attest that obscenity and venom was not isolated. Among other shocking confrontations, some of the more absurd and hateful were when a 60+ year old woman, pants suit dressed came directly up to my and my wife's position and extended the middle finger at us, while mouthing something offensive, an older man came up and suggested obscenely that my wife looked "already" destroyed (we were holding up a sign that said "abortion destroys women"), and some younger girl came over to flash us but was restrained by a policeman. These were just the most surreal assaults. The stream of obscenity and profanity was unending. It was the primary motif in my estimation.

Peggy

Ah! The compassionate left in action. God bless all those who stood up and gave witness to life. What courage to have stood there and say nothing all day for hours in response to such abuse.

John Hearn

Does this mean that the equilly big if not obsene Pro-Life march will get front page press next time?

Therese

Wouldn't it be great to have a multimillion person march for next year's inauguration -- regardless of who is in the White House??? And in the Middle of Winter??? Without a competing march to add to our numbers or confuse the issue?

Glenn

As I mentioned earlier on Amy's post regarding Neumayr's article, next year's March for Life, Jan 22, 2005, falls on a Saturday -- not a workday! I agree with Therese: multimillions!

Stuart Buck

Try this as well: http://bunniediehl.worldmagblog.com/

Patricia

Before we get too sanctimonious about the awful proabortion protesters, let's take a moment to hold up a mirror to ourselves. At several prolife demonstrations I've been stationed near the "prochoice" demonstrators. I've seen many prolife folks engage in the same types of hateful behavior. One image that has stuck with me is the woman who was hitting the proabortion folks with her rosary. Not sure how that's supposed to convince them of the love of Christ. I always hope that we won't be judged by our fanatics, but I know we are.

So I try not to judge them by their fanatics. I judge by my friend Ellen, who has convinced me that throughtful Christians of conscience can indeed believe that abortion should remain legal. Or Johnathan, who puts meaning to the idea that someone can be both antiabortion and "prochoice."

Meeting at a demonstration is not conducive to dialogue, to changing hearts and minds. We need to find ways to talk to people that don't start by judging them. I've been saddened by the malice and hate in many of the comments about those who marched Sunday. Christ's love has to start in us before we can share it with the world.

Not saying

Hi all, I am a sometime commentor on the blog and a while back I told Amy my story about having an abortion when my son was diagnosed with fatal birth defects. It was a long story, but I fought against it and then eventually believed the Drs when they told me it was the only choice. It took years to find forgiveness and healing and I can honestly say I was tormented for a long time. I couldn't reconcile what I had done even thought I felt like I had no choice.

So, events like this bring up some pretty intense feelings for me. For a while, because of the harassment I received at the clinic, I felt - for the first time in my life - rabidly prochoice. But, time and healing brought me back to my old self. :-)

Anyway, I wanted to say that Anne is very brave and I am so grateful to these women for doing this. There are many more of us who just don't have the courage yet.

It is sad to hear of such terrible actions on the part of those protesters. Sometimes I wonder how we can ever really narrow the huge chasm that seems to exist, but then I see my 12yo daughter and her friends and I have hope!

God Bless.

tom faranda

Freerepublic is right - there were about 200,000 Marchers.

My family and I were at the March with about 600 prolifers organized by Randall Terry.

Unfortunately we didn't see the Silent No More people, but I think our group was very effective. On both side of Pennsylvania Ave from 14th to 7th streets. My wife worked a megaphone for the whole 2 hours and 25 minutes it took for the Marchers to pass.

An African-American group, the Genocide Awareness Project was the first group the Marchers passed on 14 St and they were very effective with huge photos comparing KKK lynchings with abortion. Point being that the 12% black population has 36% of the abortions in the US.

Tom Kelty

"I did not come to bring peace, but a sword!" Living in Christ's love will usually put us at odds with popular ideas about personal rights. It is true in families and in society. We are all trying to answer to His question, "Who do you say that I am?"

al

Patricia,
Having been a sidewalk rosary pray-er, a participant in the march for life for the last 10 years or so, volunteering at a Crisis pregnancy center--I can tell you I have never seen anything that even remotely compares to that pro abortion march. It was not a few bad eggs--I was standing not far from where Tom Faranda was--right near the African American group, and it was an unremitting stream of profanity and indecency.

Christopher Rake

As someone who has had sharp disagreements with al on a number of issues, let me take this opportunity to say how much I admire what he and his wife did (and put up with) this weekend. God bless you both.

Jennifer

I read on another site that the group The Army of God was there, carrying signs that say "God Hates You", etc. I believe they are a very extreme group that advocates violence, but I'm not sure. Of course, the media chooses to focus on them and not the witness of courageous Christians like Emily.

I think Patricia is right, though, about not judging groups by their fanatics.

James Kabala

I can say that pro-abortion protestors do have a genuine tendency to be more obnoxious than pro-life protestors. I went to a pro-life march in Boston a few years ago, and the tiny group of pro-abortion counter-protestors that we encountered at one point did more yelling than we did in our whole march. Their slogans, like the old chestnut "Keep your rosaries off my ovaries," do have a tendency toward nastiness that most pro-life slogans don't. We were told not to yell back at them, and with a few exceptions, we didn't.
On the other hand, Patricia is right to say that any movement attracts weirdos and cranks who are unrepresentative of the larger group. At the Boston march, there a couple of right-wing fringe groups hanging around, including even the John Birch Society, which most Americans probably think went defunct in 1970 or so. (In retrospect, though, the most disreputable person there was probably Cardinal Law.

marie

"So I try not to judge them by their fanatics. I judge by my friend Ellen, who has convinced me that thoughtful Christians of conscience can indeed believe that abortion should remain legal. Or Johnathan, who puts meaning to the idea that someone can be both antiabortion and "prochoice."

Patricia,

That's very nice and non-judgmental of you. But rather than judge an activist group by how nice some of your friends are, how about judging that group by what they actually advocate - legalized killing of the unborn. Sure, there are pro-life and pro-choice fanatics who behave badly. And there are nice people who are pro-choice. But I hate what they do - and the fact that some of my best friends are pro-choice does not change that.

And next time you talk to Johnathan, why don't you "put meaning to the idea" that a baby can be both unwanted and human.

Ellyn

I've never seen such an ugly group of people....(and I'm not talking aesthetics, folks.) I watched over an hour on C-SPAN absolutely transfixed and horrified. I must cling to the hope that a group that runs on anger alone will not prevail.

TomM

I find the vitriolic response to a silent protest somewhat hopeful. Such a response suggests to me that at least some in the pro-abortion crowd are so unsure of their convictions that they can’t take even a silent rebuke with equanimity.

otm faranda

Al

I know a few prolife "Al's." Which one are you?

Funniest sign at the March - large, handwritten, and carried by a man -

"Keep Halliburton Out of my Uterus"

anyone else see one up to that standard?

Tom Faranda

Poppi

Patricia,

With all due respect and charity, I don't believe you adequately understand the horror of abortion.

You say:

"Christ's love has to start in us before we can share it with the world".

I suggest you start loving the 4,000 babies killed every day in our country with the same fervor you reserve for your thoughtful friends, Jonathan and Ellen. If you really loved these two I think you'd be a little less inclined to let them wallow in their grave ignorance.

bremlar

If we're going to have favorite signs, I liked the one in the link provided by Richard that said: "If you cut off my reproductive choice, can I cut off yours?"

I wrote a little about this on my own blog. To repeat a little, funny castration joke aside, I really wonder if the lady with that sign realized how badly it undermined her position. Just think about it.

Ashley

Thank you and God bless you Emily and Al and all who witnessed so eloquently in their silence about the human tragedy of abortion.

Reading the accounts of the hate I keep envisioning a black robed androgynous figure moving easily amongst the marchers smiling malevolently for a good day's work.

Victor Morton

I second what Christopher Rake said about Al. I work on Sunday, but I doubt I would have been there even if I don't. On that front, he's a better man than I.

Amy Pruss

I was there Sunday with pro-life protesters from Georgetown University. We stood where the March for Women's Lives started while the entire march passed us, and then moved to a position near the end of the march route. So I had a pretty good view of the march. Here's what I saw that maybe you haven't heard of:

--two walking vaginas and a large uterus/fallopian tubes/ovaries puppet

--a group calling themselves "sluts for choice"

--lots of posters featuring crude drawings of naked women

--lots of vulgar slogans playing on the name "Bush", and calling for voters to "Abort Bush."

--generous use of the word "f***" on posters

It was not a PG rally. The air was electric with hate and pro-life protesters were outnumbered somewhere between 100 and 1000 to one, but we were ably protected by the police. Male pro-lifers seemed to be getting the worst of it, and the ones I was standing with were subjected to many ad hominem attacks (You can't get pregnant, Women should stop having sex with you, etc). As a woman, I didn't get that kind of abuse, although some female students from GU were told "I hope you get raped."

Under the circumstances, it's really hard to know how to act. This time, I was pretty loud and active, especially to defend male protesters. Next time, I'll probably just smile and keep my mouth shut during the march, but not shy away from conversation with pro-choicers under more relaxed circumstances, like after a march. One thing I did that really helped me was to successively focus on different pro-choice marchers while thinking to myself "God bless you." I must have done it at least a hundred times, and it really helped me keep the right attitude during what was an extremely difficult three to four hours. It was a very good day, but not something that I want to have to do more than once every few years.

Elizabeth

What strikes me about all of these marchers is how incredibly ANTI-women they are; their signs and antics are degrading of the female body and womanhood in general. Seeing them makes me, as a woman, feel dirty and demeaned. These women are in a way, violent towards women and womanhood itself. I'm almost glad they're not having any babies to pass their hate on to.

This march is almost like a preview of what Hell must look like.

Charles M. de Nunzio

It IS a preview of Hell. The essential attitudes are there: an inveterate hatred of God and all that is good and the lascivious relish in all that is evil, with no desire to change their hearts. A "relish," yes, but no joy, not in the true sense. (That said, I note the mention of a veritable handful of marchers who were overwhelmed with shame at the full realization of what they were a part of.)

It surely seems to be the living realization of what St. Paul said in Romans, chap. I, about how paganism — in its essence, a wanton and impenitent infidelity to such truth as God makes known to each person — is the spawn of various insidious vices (including sodomy), and that to such depraved degree that they are given to a "reprobate sense," i.e., that God has actually given up on them, but for His inscrutable reasons does not call them immediately to judgment.

It's one of the main reasons I wanted to go there: to see such a mass of reprobation for myself, in all of its true, ugly colors, — to give myself a sensible perception of what it would be like to spend an eternity with such a putrid, vitriolic, blaspheming mob....

al

Thanks Victor, Christopher.

Shy One

Thank you, Charles, for that last one. I know we MUST comtinue to hope and pray for their conversions, but man, is it ever hard to love the enemies of God in the meantime. I feel I need just as much grace as they do, but for me, it's to maintain my faith that they may one day recognize and embrace His truth. We can't give in to despair, or satan's gotten us, too.

Emily

Thanks for all the comments and support. My co-blogger Annie has now posted a much longer and more detailed story about her experiences at the March. Riveting.

Annie B.

Thank you and God bless you all who wrote kind words, esp. "not saying." I've posted a lengthier account over at Emily's blog. She'd invited me and another post-abortive friend, Theresa, to be co-contributors to her blog a few months ago.

The sign that I choked the most on?
"PRO-CHILD...PRO-CHOICE." The second worst one was "PRO-FAMILY...PRO-FAITH...PRO-CHOICE." And for the pro-life side, the worst (besides the gory pictures which Op. Witness told its people NOT to carry and SNM of course never carries), was the one that boasted of "popping the abortion doc" (killing him). I wanted to cross the street, just make my way through the marchers themselves and rip that sign to shreds. We've gotta pray for those people and the "God hates you" ones. They are further astray than anyone, since they think they are NOT.

Annie B.

Looks like I was creating my post about the same time as Emily's but she was briefer! Thanks, Em, for everything...

James Kabala

Amy:
The New York Times actually did mention one of the giant vaginas, but, of course, it was buried in an article about an elderely Hispanic immigrant marcher who was supposedly "personally opposed" and supposedly said something like "how inappropriate" when she saw the giant vagina. I doubt if that marcher was in any way representative of the larger crowd.
Charles:
Excellent, and all too true, analysis. The march was a preview of Hell. However, I would be a little bit wary of declaring any person, no matter how evil, to be reprobate while he is still alive. One never knows when, where, and whom the mercy of God will strike.

c matt

First:

Kudos and blessings to those who attended.

Second:

The sign I found most offensive, most revealing of the entire pro-choice mentality, yet one of the least vulgar:

"make love, not babies"

How sadly misguided. Yet, that is what PC is all about in the end. Making love w/o openness to new life is not making love - its having sex. It completely degrades women into nothing but sex objects - and I'm sure this woman who had the sign called herself a feminist. I'm sure the pimps in DC were proud of her.

Charles M. de Nunzio

"... I would be a little bit wary of declaring any person, no matter how evil, to be reprobate while he is still alive. One never knows when, where, and whom the mercy of God will strike."

Correct. And should anyone think that I was taking it upon myself to make the determination of who fit into the "reprobate" category, re-read the passage above and notice that I was stating what is simply an objective statement of the matter. The objective fact that there are such people does not mean that we could know with metaphysical certitude who they are.

Saul of Tarsus could be illustrated as a case in point, and rightly so. Yet, for every case like that, there are alas, the multitude of others that are indeed what they appear, and that turn out like what one could expect....

Charlotte Allen

Mr. de Nunzio: Other people have pointed you to Bunny Diehl's JPG site, and we've got a link to it on the Independent Women's Forum's InkWell site (click my name when you see this post). The IWF doesn't take a stand on abortion, but Charlotte Hays and I, pro-life Catholics both, were able to get our licks in on the partisan politicization of the rally--which wasn't about abortion so much as about not re-electing George W. Bush (the number of hate Bush/love Kerry signs we saw was astounding). We can also testify to the sheer ugliness of the thing: a good cross-section of Kerry's supporters. It was a completely politicized rally. And the pro-choice movement is not a youth movement. We saw few young women in the mob, and those we did see looked, unfortunately, as though no man would ever want to make them pregnant. They looked cheerful enough in groups, but every once in a while you'd see a solitary and bedraggled fat girl festooned with "Stand Up for Choice" buttons and not looking terribly happy. It was pathetic in some sense. In the other sense, it was good to see that this was not mainstream America.

R Rood

Did anyone besides myself watch the Hallmark Hall of Fame Movie presentation Sunday evening? It was an interesting story featuring, among other things, a story of a seventeen year old girl's pregnancy which she had decided to proceed to birth. I scratched my head and wondered how many persons were influenced by it versus how many were influenced by the Washington demonstration held that day.

Guess I'll go send a Hallmark card . . . just because.

John Farrell

As someone who has had sharp disagreements with al on a number of issues, let me take this opportunity to say how much I admire what he and his wife did (and put up with) this weekend. God bless you both.

Well said. And I add my agreement and best wishes, Al.

Elmer fournier

Crucfy Him! Crucfy Him!

Charles M. de Nunzio

I must have missed the previous references to Bunny Diehl; for that and the other things mentioned (many of which were replicated in other first-person reports I've read), I thank Ms. Allen for the trouble.

Those are some of the bawdiest signage photos I've seen yet. (I dig the one gal who was, at once, a "pro-choice" "Catholic" "mom" and, at the same time, was so concerned about the current President in a certain regard.) And I'm still convinced there was even worse out there.

Though I would tend to agree that "Make Love, Not Babies" is the worst of them all, since that (along with "we will have no king but ourselves") is the essence of the pro-abortion message.

Their mass-reinforced bawdiness, it seems to me, is how they have to manufacture their cheer, for as Ms. Allen suggests, it surely isn't coming from the heart, which is why the stragglers were more or less glum.

Tom Faranda

Charlotte

Were we at the same event? 30 to 40% of the March was young women

Tom Faranda

Charlotte

Were we at the same event? 30 to 40% of the March was young women

Rob

"Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in Heaven."
Matthew 5:11

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