Sopranos Thread

Continued in the extended post, so we won't bore the rest of you...

Well. I think that was the episode we've been waiting for all season, and I think in this case, it's pretty clear the build-up, as aggravating as it was sometimes, was worth it and necessary. (Except for that dream...the length of it, I mean. Five minutes of intense symbolism would have sufficed - my favorite being the horse in the living room - "You can't have the horse here if you're going to come back..." read "whores" for "horse," and you get it."

I don't think I breathed much the last twenty minutes.

There's always been a lot of discussion regarding what this show is "about." Those of us with a tendency to look for values have sometimes described it as a depiction of some sort of struggle between good and evil. Well, it's not, because the cold fact is, there's hardly any good in it at all.

One of the tropes of the show has been to sometimes amusingly juxtapose the work of mobsters alongside their "ordinary" suburban life and family concerns. Some have criticized this, saying it works to normalize the evil of the criminals. I saw last night that really, intentionally or not, the effect is the exact opposite. This is what I mean.

It's almost as if we, the viewers, have been lulled into seeing the "good" side of these people so that we're brought to a point when the evil of everyone of them, from Tony S. to Christopher to Silvio to even Carmella can be then thrown in our face, unadulterated, and we're left, ourselves accused, tried and convicted of hiding our own eyes from the reality of evil.

This comes, most shockingly last night, I think in Silvio and Christopher. I may be wrong, but I don't know if we've ever seen Silvio actually do anything really awful. He's been on the sidelines, and I recall seeing him volunteer to do some difficult wacking once in a while, only to be turned down. He's mostly worked as the most cartoonish of these characters (a close race between him a Paulie Walnuts), him with his helmet of hair, his almost stereotypical sneer and swagger and the viewer's sly shared knowledge that whispers, "Bruce! E-Street Band!" every time he appears.

And then in this episode, his brutality is exposed as he takes a weeping Adriane (sp?), under the pretense that Christopher has OD'd, supposedly to a hospital, but really to the dreaded clearing in the woods where he rips her from the car where she's clinging to the steering wheel once she's realized what's up, and shoots her as she desperately crawls away, the bruise marks from Christopher's engraged reaction to her confession, still bright on her neck and face.

I have to tell you, as I alluded to a minute ago, I felt accused and convicted after that scene. I've watched the show, pretty resistant to the mobsters' "charms," but somehow, I'd let myself forget the truth.

And to me, the reason it's worth talking about is that it simply speaks to the broader issue of excusing and glamorizing evil in our culture. No one is guilty of anything anymore. Read newspaper accounts of crimes, and those who know the perp, and perhaps even the perp him/herself will say, "I don't know how this happened. He's really a good father, a good kid, a great friend.." Things "happen." No one is responsible. Being a "good kid" somehow covers a multitude of sins.

I think the Sopranos is partly about throwing that truth about ourselves in our face.

Random thoughts, welcoming yours:

The reconciliation...the mending of a broken marriage is supposed to make us happy, right? Then why does Tony and Carmella's reconciliation feel so filthy? Because they have their reasons. Tony's trying to escape responsibility and further connection with his Crispy Mistress, and Carmella...well, she made her deal. Sold her soul, one more time.

Christopher...in a way, we've wanted to believe in him, haven't we? That there really was something for Adriane? Should have been obvious, though...what this season was building to in terms of his character was his absolute need for Tony S's approval and his resentment of Tony B's rise, and the fact that, when push came to shove, there was no way he was going to choose Adriane over Tony.

"This is the man I'm going to hell for."

Best line of the series...sums up the whole thing.

And now, just for David Chase, I offer him the last scene of the last season of The Sopranos. No charge. At least not much. Came to me last night...perhaps it's just want I want to see...Tony Soprano's dead face being showered with garbage at a New Jersy landfill.

Yup.

Comments

[amy]

Oh...and I missed what happened to Carmine. Someone tell me.

And was Silvio related to Adriana? I just read that somewhere, which I didn't know.

[Jennifer]

Great insights, Amy. Carmine backed down and stepped aside for Johnny Sacks.

When I saw the ads for that "Friends" spinoff starring Drea de Matteo, I said to my husband, well I guess Adriana isn't coming back next season. Though he said she could've been on both shows because the Sopranos has a different shooting schedule, I still had a feeling.

It's not only the beatings and murders that make the evil real, but the little interactions too. Remember last week's episode with Janice beating up a soccer mom? When she seemed to be getting better (whether or not she really was, at least she was trying) Tony deliberately provoked her. And Tony's earlier interactions with Dr. Melfi? I think this season has been reminding us of or maybe bringing Tony's evil to the forefront more than other seasons have, in small and big ways.

[Fr. Rob Johansen]

The scene last week with Tony goading Janice into exploding was, for me, the epitome of Tony's viciousness. There was no "payoff" for him in that all, nothing in it for him except sheer schadenfreude.

[amy]

That scene with Janice struck me as very important, too. It was as if at that point, Tony made a choice. The whole ep had been about anger and its toll, he even admitting it to Dr. Melfi. But for some reason, something about Janice successfully (at some level) dealing with her anger provoked him - it fits in with what I've been thinking all season - that one of the other things this show is "about" is the possibility of redemption, of change, of escaping, for lack of a better word, the consequences of our choices or even our fate. At that point, I thought, Tony made his choice. He was beyond redemption.

[Tom]

Sorry, but the Soprano's has been a major disappointment this year due to poor writing and plot development! Last night's show was way too rushed; key people getting "whacked" without any real insight into why. No real drama and angst between her and Christopher about where they find themsleves and their predicament. No emotion or view from him in "ratting" her out and getting her killed. What really disturbed me is the notion that Tony is becoming a sympathetic character, that he was only being loyal and doing what was right. Except Tony should not be sympathetic, he's a scumbag murderer who has no conscience and he knows it. Where is Lorraine Bracco in all of this mess??? WEAK and Disappointing.

[Brian]

Great scene last night:

Christopher at the gas station looking at the struggling family and making his choice.

Also Amy, I think that Silvio helped kill "Pussy" on the boat a few seasons ago. Dr. Melfi may be the only main character who hasn't been completely corrupted...yet.

[Ian]

Amy,

Your point about the "horse" a couple of weeks ago was dead-on. Remember Tony's line to Valentina in Season 4 when she approached him: "I already stole his [Ralphie's] horse" The horse gets burned up by Ralphie, Valentina gets burned up in her apartment... I knew what was up in the dream sequence with Tony on the horse before Carmella said a word. Great writing!!

The thing with Adriana has been building for 3 seasons now. You always knew it would come down to this, but I'm surprised by the way it happened. You knew there was a reason for the Tony-Adriana thing earlier too. It properly set the stage for the final betrayal...

[Peggy]

Well put Amy. I also had a similar impression that, here we'd been seeing Tony for some time in a weakened state as a mob leader, husband, father and cousin, etc. Suddenly last night, from nowhere (I suppose as a consequence of that LONG dream sequence) stronger and tougher than ever. He and Carmella re-united. It should be happy. They do belong together in a sense; and do care for one another in a sense. Indeed, it was a deal w/the devil for her. She, as Adrianna also later realized--with far less pleasant results, shall we say--you cannot escape from the mob. Tony will cheat again some day. Carmella must realize it, but she got something for her troubles. She has no problem benefitting from his life of crime. The less she knows the happier she can be about it.

The immediate decisiveness with which Adrianna was killed just shocked me immensely. I really could not have imagined it would happen, though I had always thought that they'd "have to kill her" if they ever found out. [Drea DeMatteo said in interviews she had a contract for the next season even though she's got the "Joey" role.] She's not "family" like cousin Tony B, over whom Tony S is still stewing. I guess he did not stew last night, but he says he'll take care of it himself. Adrianna is the classic pretty (well, she is over-made-up), but stupid. Because we did not see the discussion prior to the murder, I don't know how decisive Christopher himself was about killing her. Was he torn at all? Was it Tony who decided what to do?

We got reminded last night that these were hardened criminals & killers we have been watching, laughing at and empathizing with for some years now. [How often did we see Chris and Paulie bungle a murder or weren't we glad when Ralphie was kiled b/c he was so disgusting? Adrianna was someone we liked--though maybe she did not have it all together. How disturbing it was.

[Steve Giovann]

Well. I think that was the episode we've been waiting for all season, and I think in this case, it's pretty clear the build-up, as aggravating as it was sometimes, was worth it and necessary. (Except for that dream...the length of it, I mean. Five minutes of intense symbolism would have sufficed - my favorite being the horse in the living room - "You can't have the horse here if you're going to come back..." read "whores" for "horse," and you get it.)

Absolutely.

The big news in this episode isn't Tony and Carm reuniting (read: Tony buying Carm off), but in fact the death of Adriana.

Certainly this is the harshest murder we've seen on the show yet. It came as somewhat of a shock when Big Puss was whacked, not because you didn't have ample warning mind you, but because you didn't *want* him to be killed. The same rings true for Adriana, except she is much more innocent than him, and the simple fact that killing a woman is worse than killing a man. Sorry, it just is.

No, Adriana wasn't an angel, not even by a long shot. But she was much more naive than many people realize, emphasized in this episode by that reference to the Pakastani drug dealer whose brother ran a" prep school for young boys."

[Steve Giovanni]

Well. I think that was the episode we've been waiting for all season, and I think in this case, it's pretty clear the build-up, as aggravating as it was sometimes, was worth it and necessary. (Except for that dream...the length of it, I mean. Five minutes of intense symbolism would have sufficed - my favorite being the horse in the living room - "You can't have the horse here if you're going to come back..." read "whores" for "horse," and you get it.)

Absolutely.

The big news in this episode isn't Tony and Carm reuniting (read: Tony buying Carm off), but in fact the death of Adriana.

Certainly this is the harshest murder we've seen on the show yet. It came as somewhat of a shock when Big Puss was whacked, not because you didn't have ample warning mind you, but because you didn't *want* him to be killed. The same rings true for Adriana, except she is much more innocent than him, and the simple fact that killing a woman is worse than killing a man. Sorry, it just is.

No, Adriana wasn't an angel, not even by a long shot. But she was much more naive than many people realize, emphasized in this episode by that reference to the religious Pakastani drug dealer whose brother ran a" prep school for young boys."

I also think this episode showed us once again what makes the Sopranos so great, and that is the blatant way in which it shows our humanity, our fallen nature, for what it is.

No person is intrinsically evil, and yet people do evil things all the time, every time we sin, in fact. Tony Soprano is a modernized King David. He has a caring heart for his family and for animals (think of Tony's outrage for the ducks in the first season or the horse Piomi in the previous season versus King David's outrage at the story of the rich man who killed the poor man's only sheep), and yet he is capable of performing the most henious of crimes with no obvious remorse (think of all the murders and adultery of Tony S compared to the murder and adultery of King D).

I wonder if this is what's written in that "Gospel according to the Sopranos" I saw at Barnes & Noble. Do you know?

[joodyb]

Re intriguing comment on shoddy plot development: The Christopher-Adrianna leadup to the deed seemed clearly intentional and consistent with the relationship. It was always rushed, sentences trailing off, one doing something to appease the other until the next blowup. They never talked things out. The absence of real communication could be seen as the downfall, but it was more complex: She wanted her idea of a real relationship, though she was incapable on every level of bringing that about; he wanted the traditional flashy armpiece with all the brotherhood perks, AND to be T's first mate, and then there's that pesky heroin addiction. (Heroin, also known as 'horse.' hmmm.) The gas station scene, while over the top, clinched the inevitable: fond look at the hood of the car; guy with kids and plastic bags could've been his cousin, if not brother. The telescoping view of life in witness protection. Even more ooky, but I think when Christopher messed up Adrianna's face (and not for the first time), he knew there was no turning back. And what becomes of the fed woman? What were they trying to establish with that pollyanna outburst about 'she could be in china'?

[Jason]

I felt bad for Adriana. A tragic end for a woman who never lived up to her potential as a person.

Ditto, as well, on the "this is the man I'm going to hell for" line. For all his pent up hatred and resentment for Tony, he still went back to him. There's a good parallel in the spiritual life. After all the misery we go through serving Satan in sin, we still go back to him. For what? Why couldnt he just go with Adriana and get away from it all? It boggles my mind.

[Hudson]

It was kind of unrealistic that the Feds wouldn't tail Adrianna once they released her to convince Christopher to go into the Witness Protection Program.

They would know that she stood a big chance of getting whacked (and would have relished the opportunity to nail one of Tony's guys in the attempt).

But then this is TV, not reality.

Bear in mind also that we didn't see Christopher after he reported (off-camera) to Tony about A. and the Feds. He may still be in deep sh!t himself; anyone connected with somoene who ratted is at risk, since Tony and the rest of the crew would now assume that if Adrianna was ratting for a whole year, the Feds may have a whole lot of info on Christopher with which to blackmail or prosecute.