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June 22, 2004
A question
This is for all of you knowledgeable Lutherans and former Lutherans out there.
Is it common for Lutherans to call their worship service a "Mass?" Is it even done?
The reason: I just passed a Lutheran church that had a big sign out front advertising "La Misa en Espanol,"
and I was wondering if I had grounds before I started raising a stink about it.
(In case you don't know, Lutheran churches in some areas, particularly in Chicago, have been accused of basically pretending to be Roman Catholic for the sake of Hispanic immigrants. Or, to put it another way, of having a lot of traditional Hispanic Roman Catholic trappings about and doing nothing to disabuse anyone of the notion that this might actually not be a Roman Catholic church.)
From the comments: Don asks a good question:
But maybe the more relevant question is not what "Mass" means to a Lutheran, but what "misa" means in Spanish, esp. to an Hispanic who has little or no English. I.e., how does a Spanish-speaker read "misa" -- "generic Christian service, which might be a Catholic Mass" or "Catholic Mass"?
I don't know. Anyone?Anyone?
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
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Well, you can't get more Lutheran than Luther, can you?
http://www.ctsfw.edu/etext/luther/liturgy/german_mass.asc
Posted by: Davidid at Jun 22, 2004 12:26:40 PM
A lot of Protestant churches have been usurping the image of La Virgen de Guadualupe to attract Spanish-speaking parishioners too. Argh!
Posted by: Rosie at Jun 22, 2004 12:41:25 PM
I'm married to a Lutheran who of course has a Lutheran family (immediate and extended). They call it a 'service' and not a 'mass'. Davidid, I read the link you provided and found it very Catholic! But Martin Luther believed in the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary and revered her as well - the Lutheran Church today is quite different from what he envisioned in 1526, that's for sure!
Posted by: Colleen at Jun 22, 2004 12:49:43 PM
As a former Lutheran, I've never once heard an American English-speaking Lutheran use the term "mass" to describe Sunday worship. I also never saw a St. Mary Lutheran Church until I saw a new Hispanic Lutheran congregation that had a sign outside the existing Augustana Lutheran Church in my old neighborhood in Washington, DC. It bothers me not only that the Lutherans are using names and imagery for Hispanics that they never would otherwise, but also that they are starting separate congregregations for Hispanics. I think the practice is motivated in part by the quotas that the national church (ELCA) establishes for setting up minority mission congregations. It strikes me as very divisive, and it's one of the many reasons I'm happy to be part of the universal Church.
Posted by: Cornelius at Jun 22, 2004 12:53:16 PM
I've noticed this, too, Amy, and have had the same concern. But maybe the more relevant question is not what "Mass" means to a Lutheran, but what "misa" means in Spanish, esp. to an Hispanic who has little or no English. I.e., how does a Spanish-speaker read "misa" -- "generic Christian service, which might be a Catholic Mass" or "Catholic Mass"? If "misa" does not have the former meaning, then these Lutheran congregations are being misleading.
Posted by: Don Boyle at Jun 22, 2004 1:07:52 PM
A married couple I know recently converted from Lutheranism to Catholicism and both commented on how very similar the Lutheran service is to the Catholic Mass. My husband (a cradle Catholic like me) also recently attended a Lutheran service and had the same reaction.
Just my .02 (I know it doesn't answer the "is it called a Mass?" question.)
Posted by: Cheryl at Jun 22, 2004 1:13:31 PM
Here's a good example of the phenomenon:
http://www.bethel-madison.org/html/Latino%20Ministries/MINISTERIOS%20LATINOS.htm
From the Land of Cheese. Madison, someone once quipped, is ten square miles surrounded by reality.
Posted by: JD at Jun 22, 2004 1:26:13 PM
In all my years as an ELCA Lutheran, I never once heard the Lutheran service described as a "Mass." It just wasn't done.
None of the converts in "There We Stood, Here We Stand: 11 Lutherans Rediscover their Catholic Roots" ever describe the Lutheran service as a "Mass" either.
That's not to say that it isn't done. It might be the practice of some of the more conservative Lutheran bodies (Wisconsin Synod or Missouri Synod), but it would be a pretty rare practice I would imagine.
Posted by: Tim Drake at Jun 22, 2004 1:34:25 PM
As a Lutheran pastor for the past 25 years, I guess I can speak to this matter. Most of us Lutherans would not use the term "Mass" for the Eucharist, but some certainly would, especially among the more "high church" of my brethren. The 16th century Lutheran Confessions do in fact use the term "Mass". BTW, Amy, I LOVE your site! Thanks!
Posted by: Jim at Jun 22, 2004 1:34:58 PM
As an aside, I get irritated, in a Nihil Obstat kind of way, when newspapers and news broadcast refer to Protestant congregants as "parishioners." Catholics have parishes; Protestants have congregations. Right?
Posted by: Rod Dreher at Jun 22, 2004 1:35:17 PM
Here is a Lutheran response to the "Catolica" uproar in Chicago: http://www.mcsletstalk.org/72E.htm
The author, who appears to approve of "catholicity" within Lutheranism, defends the use of "misa" in the Spanish-speaking ministry of Lutherans.
Remember that Protestants of all stripes focus on the "unchurched," the 40% or whatever of American Christian believers who don't belong to a denomination or congregation. Since Protestants put more into the collection plate and usually don't support parochial schools, they spend a lot more time and money on evangelism than we do.
My guess is that this Lutheran church has discovered a population of "unchurched" Spanish-speaking Christians in the area. We naturally assume these people are non-practicing Catholics. That may, or may not, be the case, with the spread of evangelical sects in the global South and the immigrant communities of the U.S. I would hope that these families, and their possibly unbaptized children, are better served in a Lutheran congregation than in one of the sects.
If the Lutheran Church is having some success-any success, really-in its Spanish ministry, then it is time for the Catholic diocese and parishes to put up their own signs, and in bigger print.
I mentioned the Chicago story to a priest who does Spanish-speaking ministry, and he said he saw two silver linings. One is that the Lutheran service is much closer to a Catholic Mass than the usual evangelical bible service, so in a way it keeps people nearer to the Church. The other is having a statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe in a Lutheran church, which is a blessing in itself. :-)
Posted by: George at Jun 22, 2004 1:36:50 PM
I have changed my mind, based on an an e-mail from a friend.
This excerpt, from the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia's Report of the Northern Virginia Hispanic Church Planting Task Force, excuses the recruitment of Catholic Hispanics.
http://www.region3.thediocese.net/iglesia/20030130report.doc
Now obviously this doesn't apply, at all, to Lutherans in Indiana. But, if it was me, I would share my concerns with the local Lutheran pastor, and mail a copy to the head of Hispanic ministry in my diocese.
"Most Latinos were baptized in the Roman Catholic tradition and they are inclined to maintain that religious tradition or be part of a church that reflect this religious perspective. However, the Roman Catholic Church has shown very little interest in serving this particular population. Since the Roman tradition mostly stresses the assurance of compliance with sacramental obligations, its generally assumed believe (sic) is that all Latinos can attend any Roman Catholic church regardless of the language in which the service is conducted. However, the reality does not work this way and many particular needs and wants are not met by this approach. Here is where we see the role and the significance of the presence of our church.
A huge felt need for our target group is for a real community of “my people.” Our gift as Anglicans is that we understand the need for community."
Posted by: George at Jun 22, 2004 1:56:56 PM
Rod,
Some Protestant denominations do have parishes. The Episcopalians, for example.
In fact, here's a link to an Episcopal parish finder:
http://www.ecdplus.org/parish/
Posted by: David at Jun 22, 2004 2:45:49 PM
"However, the Roman Catholic Church has shown very little interest in serving this particular population."
What fertilizer. Tell that to those who attend the Spanish Mass here at St. Charles Borromeo, who have been ministered to by two Anglos (Fr. Pohl, who started the Spanish Mass in a neighboring parish of Holy Angels in Sturgis, and me, here in Coldwater) and now ably assisted by the wonderful priest from Colombia, Fr. Adalberto Cortez. The Catholic Church has little interest in ministering to these wonderful people? Tu es muy loco in la cabeza.
Posted by: Fr. Brian Stanley at Jun 22, 2004 2:48:27 PM
Looks like some Lutherans have parishes, too.
http://www.scvlp.org/
Posted by: David at Jun 22, 2004 2:53:05 PM
The report from the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia is damning, but not necessarily inaccurate. There are many good priests in the Arlington Diocese, but it does tend to combine the "bix-box" model of parish ministry with a bland lowest-common-denominator approach to worship and ministry. Not all clergy and parishes are like that, of course, but if someone isn't being fed, they will go elsewhere. One can hardly blame the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia doing its best to feed them. Whether they are very successful at it is doubtful.
But there is a bright side. There are plenty of Episcopalians who - for a variety of reasons - whose particular needs and wants are not met in most ECUSA parishes and whose mentality is openly sneered. There are, for instance, no more traditionalist Anglo-Catholic parishes in the Diocese of Virgina: one has to drive into Washington, DC for that. There is, therefore, a pastoral need for at least one Anglican Use community in the Arlington Diocese to fulfil that (admittedly small) need. If any powers that be in the Arlington Diocese, out of ecumenical courtesy, feel even the slightest hesitation to permit such a community to exist, that report should more than assuage their consciences.
Posted by: Patrick Rothwell at Jun 22, 2004 2:59:27 PM
La Santa Misa o la Misa is always and exclusively the Mass of the Catholic Church. The Lutherans around here speak of "culto" (worship service) (see http://www.sanlucas.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=3).
Posted by: Ignacio at Jun 22, 2004 3:20:06 PM
Here's an article on the subject:
http://www.worship.ca/docs/ww_28.html
Posted by: Meggan at Jun 22, 2004 3:23:08 PM
From the Augsburg Confession, the fundamental Lutheran statement of belief:
Article XXIV: Of the Mass.Some Spanish-speaking Lutherans do use "misa" (while more often using "culto," as Ignacio says). Swedish Lutherans have "Hogmassa." I was an ELCA pastor, and I knew of Lutheran clergy who referred to as mass. But, yes, plenty of Lutherans haven't heard it referred to that way, and plenty of Lutheran clergy don't.Falsely are our churches accused of abolishing the Mass; for the Mass is retained among us, and celebrated with the highest reverence. Nearly all the usual ceremonies are also preserved, save that the parts sung in Latin are interspersed here and there with German hymns, which have been added to teach the people.
Posted by: Bill Cork at Jun 22, 2004 3:32:18 PM
Yes, the Lutheran service is very much like the Novus Ordo Missae of the Catholic Church. But there is one difference in my experience. At the Lutheran church where I am occasionally asked to sing they receive their communion kneeling at a rail
Posted by: David Kubiak at Jun 22, 2004 3:44:39 PM
My goodness, David, you blog AND sing?
Impressive!
Posted by: David at Jun 22, 2004 3:46:48 PM
I was an LCMS Lutheran until I was 20, and most of my family still is. To give my perspective on a few issues:
1) Luther did call his communal worship service a mass, but I don't think that I've ever heard any other Lutherans use the term.
2) The Lutheran services I grew up with did sound a lot like a Novus Ordo mass. A couple of the most noticable differences were a bigger emphasis on the sermon and a smaller one on the eucharist (which only happened about twice a month) and the fact that the Lutherans (at least at older churches) still used communion rails.
3) I have heard plenty of Lutherans use the term parish and its various derivatives. It's not an exclusively Catholic thing.
Posted by: Bill H at Jun 22, 2004 4:10:03 PM
As a native Spanish speaker and cradle Catholic, I can assure you that "misa" applies only to the Catholic Mass. Worship at another Christian church would be a "servicio" or "culto". But I'm not surprised that it's being used, nor of the intention with which it is used. I lived in Chicago for 35 years, and back in the early '70s there was an Episcopal church in our neighborhood which advertised on the radio the celebration of the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe in order to attract Hispanics. Even sadder, the person in charge was a laicized Catholic priest.
I want to thank Father Brian for his sensibility and his ministry to Hispanics in his parish. Would that more Anglo priest followed his example!
Posted by: Mila at Jun 22, 2004 4:27:02 PM
Hmmmm-- maybe Protestants should rename "Christmas" to "Christ-service", to avoid running afoul of the RCC's copyright!
I think there's a greater use of "parish" in many Protestant denominations today, to describe a certain model of congregation. "Mass" I haven't heard outside of Catholic or Anglican usage. (And the ELCA church here is pretty "high" liturgically.) But "Missal" is certainly used, and it seems to reflect the same root-- I assume a Hispanic speaker would see that word as just being the adjectival form of the noun "misa". Given that Anglican churches use "Mass", and the LBW is actually closer to Novus Ordo than the Anglican BCP, I don't think that Catholics have much basis for complaint. There's nothing wrong with Lutherans advertising the fact that their services are much closer to a Catholic Mass than, say, the Pentacostals down the street. (Unless there are other, more deceptive, practices accompanying it, that provide evidence for a more definite pattern of dishonesty.)
Posted by: EHamilton at Jun 22, 2004 4:38:39 PM
"There's nothing wrong with Lutherans advertising the fact that their services are much closer to a Catholic Mass than, say, the Pentacostals down the street."
The issue is whether "Santa Misa" misleads people into thinking consubstantiation is the same thing as transsubstantiation, or that this distinction isn't important. The issue is false ecumenism.
Posted by: JD at Jun 22, 2004 4:55:49 PM
