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November 19, 2004
Unforgivable Sin
Priest tells little kids there's no Santa
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
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Comments
Gotta admit, I don't get it. It's not like he told them there is no God, or that Jesus is a myth or anything. This Santa phenomenon is a most peculiar form of literalism for a lot of people. But then I was never taught to believe in Santa and never taught my children to believe in Santa. And this has had some interesting consequences, like the time my four-year-old daughter and I were in the Walmart line and the clerk asked Mary if Santa was coming to her house and Mary chirped "Oh, Santa's not real, it's just mom & dad!" WELL! If looks could kill! I half expected her to reach under the counter and push the Child Protective Services Alert Button! Some of our kids have wanted to believe in Santa for a time and that was OK too; we never INSISTED or pointed out that we had no chimney in some of our houses. Bottom line, however, is: What is the point of actively teaching children that something which is not true is in fact LITERALLY true? What kind of fun is that? What kind of imagination does THAT require? Give me baby Jesus any day. OK. Annual anti-Santa rant is over.
Posted by: kathy t at Nov 19, 2004 8:26:59 AM
Good for him. I tell my kids there is no Santa and they mommy and daddy work hard to buy them the presents they get. We do celebrate St Nicholaus day, though.
Posted by: iClaudius at Nov 19, 2004 8:36:17 AM
We put up a cardboard chimney to hang our stockings on in one of our houses. When we had a real chimney, I think I had already figured it out. It would have been a pretty tight squeeze though.
As far as what the priest did, I don't think it was his place. Parents are the first teachers. If he doesn't want the parents letting their kids believe in Santa, then start educating the adults, who were probably denied a decent religious education by the church when they were young.
Posted by: Tim F. at Nov 19, 2004 8:38:39 AM
2319! 2319!
Posted by: Mike Wuzowski at Nov 19, 2004 8:41:12 AM
After reading my last line, I would clarify that the adults were probably denied a decent religious education when they were young because the Church caused so much confusion for their parents. That's how I read my situation anyway. It sounded pretty contradictory in my first post.
Posted by: Tim F. at Nov 19, 2004 8:41:51 AM
I'm most disturbed by the statement:
"There's a time and place for everything, and this was not the time or the place or the age group to be talking about the true meaning of Christmas, at least in terms that young children cannot understand,' Tamberg said.
Mass is not the time and place for a priest to talk about the true meaning of Christmas????? Maybe the priest shouldn't have done it, but for the parents to get so upset and to worry about what's going to happen when they go to the MALL this year??? Heaven help us - really! My small kids (1st grade, K, and toddler) do believe in Santa, but it sure wouldn't break my heart for the older two to hear from Fr. John at their school Mass that Santa isn't real.
Also btw, Mike Wuzowski...I'll be keeping my eye on you...you crack me up.
Posted by: Mary at Nov 19, 2004 10:00:59 AM
An apology from the Archdiocese of Los Angeles for trying to teach children about the true meaning of Christmas, huh. Sounds about right.
Posted by: Damian at Nov 19, 2004 10:13:11 AM
I haven't taught my children there is a Santa Claus, but it was a treasured tradition for my husband that he didn't want to give up. We don't make a big deal of it, but they do get a religious toy or book from "Santa" and have been told the story of St. Nicholas. I think Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny are traditions in this country that other adults have no business ruining for our children if their parents choose to pretend they are real.
Posted by: Lisa C at Nov 19, 2004 10:38:36 AM
Hold on, Lisa C.
The Easter Bunny comes to Easter Sunday Mass at my parish and passes out candies. How can anybody say s/he's not real?
I'll agree that I've never seen Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy at church (yet).
Posted by: Zhou De-Ming at Nov 19, 2004 10:46:47 AM
I would give this priest a swift kick. There's something astoundingly cruel about destroying this fantasy for a group of captive 5-year-olds.
Posted by: Whitcomb at Nov 19, 2004 11:07:00 AM
Well, I think it was a mistake for the priest to have taken the tone that he did. Obviously, if he wants to teach the "true" meaning of Christmas, that it's about the birth of Jesus, then he can do it in a more tactful way.
I distinctly remember that during my education in Catholic school, the priests would use the Socratic method with the kids. "What is Christmas about?" Some kids would answer "SANTA!" or "PRESENTS!" And the Priest would say, "Really? Are you sure?" Inevitibly, one kid would answer "Christmas is about the birth of Jesus." And the other kids would go, "oh yeah!"
The idea is not to call their parents liars. The idea is to present them with information that as kids they'll be able to understand. Kids definitely resonate with the baby Jesus in the manger. They LOVE the idea of the sheep and the shepards and the 3 wise men. It's just a good story with a lot of little elements in them that kids seem to find attractive. Why a priest wouldn't discuss that, and instead would basically call their parents liars by framing the discission about the metaphysical realities and theological implications of Santa Claus is beyond me....
Posted by: Sydney Carton at Nov 19, 2004 11:07:53 AM
Let me see if I understand this properly . . .
Step 1) Parents lie to children about the Faith.
Step 2) Priest corrects misinformed parents and children about the Faith
Step 3) Priest is tarred and feathered.
You know what? The bishops can make all the new adult catechisms they want, it won’t do a darn thing with this going on.
How about teaching kids about the Nativity, and only the Nativity. Not some myth about a fat guy from the North Pole. If they want to tell their kids about St. Nicholas, how about the REAL CATHOLIC St. Nicholas. (www.stnicholascenter.org)
If you can’t instruct them about the Nativity and St. Nicholas of Myra when they are 5, forget about instructing them about chastity at 15, or abortion at all.
St. Nicholas of Myra, ora pro nobis!
Posted by: Anson Groves at Nov 19, 2004 11:53:29 AM
Well, I also didn't teach my kids that Santa was real...rather that it was a tradition that has gotten out of hand. Gifts are expressions of love from parents, family, friends...not a reward from a busy-body mythical North Pole resident.
Frankly, the parents who teach that Santa is real are lying to their kids, and we managed (we Christians, that is) to celebrate Christmas for centuries without having Santa the center of Christmas. We won't be able to put Christ back in Christmas while there's a fat, red-suited elf taking up all the space.
Posted by: Steve Cavanaugh at Nov 19, 2004 11:57:35 AM
Our irrepressible youngest, now 20 (and still irrepressible) declared at four that Santa was going to bring her this and that, and I said, "Kathleen, there is no Santa Claus."
However, this bullheaded child had met a "Santa Claus" at a shoe store, a very nice and somewhat bored young man who had taken her on his knee and filled her little head with every sort of fable. So she ARGUED with me! What did I mean, she had actually MET Santa Claus, who had told her all about his elves and his North Pole, and who did I think I was anyhow??
There was no talking her out of it. All we could do was wait. But when the playgroup teacher at the Church told her that the Easter Bunny was going to lay eggs under her bed at Easter (this woman obviously would have benefited from a beginning course in mammalian biology, not to mention theology) I put my foot down and INSISTED that this was nonsense. Since she hadn't actually "met" the Easter Bunny I got away with it.
But really, this is a sensitive topic, and perhaps the priest might have been more tactful. Not all parents are as hard-hearted as I am.
Posted by: Leo at Nov 19, 2004 12:19:02 PM
I am with Kathy T. I was never told that Santa Claus was real, and I never told my children that. I was told the story of St. Nicholas (minus any any religious implications as my parents were unbelievers) and we received chocolate "gold coins" in our stockings. My father told me about getting the chocolate coins in his shoes on St. Nicholas' day when he was young in the Netherlands, so I did that with my kids.
I actually got in trouble in kindegarden for telling the other kids that there wasn't any Santa Claus, and proving that it was impossible (too many houses in the world for one man to get to..why did poor kids get less than rich kids...etc.) I was told "It's not your business to tell them that." A note was sent home, and my mother tried to teach me about tact.
I am torn about what this priest did. The confrontational crusader part of me agrees with him. I find the idea of lying to kids and trying to make them believe that story to be very distasteful. The part that my mother got to, suggests that he could have talked about the real meaning of Christmas without actually mentioning that Santa Claus isn't.
Susan F.Peterson
Posted by: Susan Peterson at Nov 19, 2004 12:48:05 PM
What Fr. Rocha action--and the response to it--has done is to rip off the meaningless veneer that is the outer layer of most American Catholics' religion, and reveal the core of fundamental paganism beneath. As long as what is really important to these so-called Catholics is a mixture of sentimentality, superstition, and materialism--which is what real popular paganism always has been--Evangelicals will have an opening to say that Catholics are not really Christians at all.
Posted by: Henry Dieterich at Nov 19, 2004 12:51:23 PM
Did not the whole Santa story really start after Santa (the white-bearded guy in a red snow suit we all know and love) first appear on Coca Cola advertisement just over a hundred years ago?
I was fed the Santa story as a kid and feel a little cheated by it. The true meaning of Christmas did not matter to me until later in childhood. I once spent Christmas with a family in Costa Rica and while Santa was not discouraged, the primary focus of Christmas for children (toddlers and older children alike) was the true Christmas story. The presents under the tree were for el nino (the Christ child) and there was nothing about Santa sneaking in at night to leave presents. It was a trully religious experience.
In Europe the only presents that were given centered on Santa was the celebration of the feast of Saint Nicholas.
While maybe the time and circumstance may have not been appropriate for the priest to debunk Santa, I totally agree with Anson Groves. Christmas and Easter have been largely secularized. If parents are unwilling the teach the faith and celebrate it a very early age, then they have very little reason to complain that their children do not know or practice the faith as adults.
Posted by: Lorenz at Nov 19, 2004 12:51:51 PM
Totally agree with Sidney.
I also believe that Santa can be used quite effectively to explain saintly intervention to children. Sure Santa Claus as he appears in our culturre is an extremely secular and commercialized version of St. Nicolas that has no relationship to Christianity, but the Church has absorbed and used secular and pagan symbols in the past.
Posted by: Martin Tibby at Nov 19, 2004 1:02:31 PM
Interesting.
First, I have no idea what a homilist is doing talking about Christmas in mid-November. It seems the crusading anti-Santa needs some lessons on the liturgical year.
Second, the parish priest is not the primary catechist for children ... unless they are his own. Of course, if he wanted to take his soapbox to a parent meeting and deal with people who might actually be able to debate the issue ... Well, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the school auditorium on that night.
Third, I've seen firsthand for many years the quantity of food, booze, and loot that descends on rectories in December. I think if Rocha wanted to haul what presents he does get down to the local Worker House and dish out some soup and walnut cream balls for the homeless, that would go a good way toward rehabilitating him.
Posted by: Todd at Nov 19, 2004 1:03:51 PM
Not to read too much into Father's name, but traditionally they don't do Santa Claus in Mexico. Christmas is, I belive, much richer (in tradition and spirituality, not materially) in Mexico than the US. The Posadas, looking for room at the inn, are a great tradition. The "Pastorales" plays; the streets lined with "luminarios," the "Noche Buena" family and meals on Christmas Eve. The tamales! Gift-giving is on "Three King's Day," (Dia de Los Tres Reyes) January 6.
Who needs Santa Claus?
Posted by: Zhou De-Ming at Nov 19, 2004 1:27:23 PM
If we pretend that there's a Santa, what's to keep out children from thinking that we were pretending about God?
Posted by: WRY at Nov 19, 2004 1:45:32 PM
Who needs Santa Claus?!?! Good God , man - 1/3rd of our retail economy depends upon him !!!
Posted by: c matt at Nov 19, 2004 2:00:58 PM
“Dear Editor—I am 8 years old.
“Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
“Papa says, ‘If you see it in The Sun, it’s so.’
“Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?
Virginia O’Hanlon
115 West Ninety-fifth Street
Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the scepticism of a sceptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men’s or children’s are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no child-like faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.
Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.
You tear apart the baby’s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.
No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.
(From the Editorial Page of The New York Sun, written by Francis P. Church, September 21, 1897)
Posted by: Whitcomb at Nov 19, 2004 2:03:40 PM
Parochial school Mass:
Priest tells kids there is no Santa Claus.
Later that day on playground of said parochial school:
Kindergartner 1 " I can't believe the priest says there is no Santa Claus."
Kindergartner 2 "Don't sweat it. Ever since the Scandal they've lost all credibility."
Posted by: c matt at Nov 19, 2004 2:04:17 PM
Second, the parish priest is not the primary catechist for children ...
You are absolutely correct on this. However, by default, he usually ends up that way.
Posted by: c matt at Nov 19, 2004 2:10:09 PM
