Well now

In his latest e-letter, Karl Keating has a few words for Crisis Magazine...

In its early years, though, the proportions were different. "Catholicism in Crisis" ran articles about Catholicism in crisis. The 1986 name change did not see a major change in focus. Two decades ago the magazine was mainly a vehicle for the critique of the wider, secular culture, secondarily an analyzer of the way that culture impacted the Church (for the worse, mostly). There were articles that were overtly political, but they were the exception.

About a decade ago the emphasis changed. The magazine moved from South Bend to Washington, and Deal Hudson became involved in Republican politics, which meant "Crisis" also became involved in Republican politics.

Read on...fascinating.

Comments

[Mark Shea]

Bravo!

[Rich Leonardi]

As when he challenged conservative Catholics to rethink Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Keating pulls a "Nixon goes to China".

BTW, I'm struck by the fact that Hudson is still so visibly associated with the magazine. To the casual observer who doesn't pay attention to the name-changes on the editorial page, nothing presumably has changed.

[Tom]

He used to edit the "National Catholic Register," before the Legion of Christ bought out that publication and improved its looks, content, and circulation.

Ouch!

We did publish the "Voter's Guide for Serious Catholics," but that merely reiterated Church teaching on five non-negotiable moral issues.

Uh huh.

[Patricia Gonzalez]

A well-written, thoughtful exposition of what I've also found troubling about many conservative Catholic articles and opinions. Like Mark Shea, I say "well done!" Thanks, Amy, for passing it along.

[Patrick Sweeney]

I guess I never picked up a copy of Crisis when it was more theological. For the left-wing politics Catholics have Commonweal and America, what's so wrong with having Crisis on the right-wing for politics?

[S.F.]

I don't read "Crisis" so I don't know from personal experience. I trust Karl Keating to get the facts straight, so I'm willing to agree with him.

Do any of you four previous posters read Crisis? Does Keating's analysis square up with your personal experience?

[john hearn]

I don't read "Crisis" as I find the "First Things" fills that niche for me and is meatier to boot.

[Chris-2-4]

Patrick:

You inadvertently persuade me of the opposite conclusion. I would like to see Crisis more Catholic precisely because CommonWeal and America are so left-leaning political. They need to be driven back to being Catholic magazines just like Crisis does.

[Mark R]

The old "Crisis" wasn't that hot either...I remember a lot of straw man arguments in the old. Still, old or new, it is better than a lot of other periodicals out there. Neither compares to the old New Oxford Review or the current First Things.

[Mila Morales]

I have only read Crisis the past two years, but my impression has been like Karl's: a Catholic version of National Review. Particularly egregious was the October issue, with the cover story "The Case for an American Empire". I'm suprised Karl doesn't comment on that one.

[Neil]

A very quick question that arise from naivete:

If I were to walk through the "Periodicals" department of the Notre Dame library and select English-language magazines or journals that would likely attract the subscriptions of theologically 'conservative' Catholics, I would come up with a surprisingly large number, ranging from more academic journals (Communio, Nova et Vetera, Faith and Reason, Fides Quaerens Intellectum, Fellowship of Catholic Scholars Quarterly) to ecumenical magazines sympathetic to Catholicism (First Things, Touchstone) to speciality publications (Image: A Journal of Religion and the Arts) to more popular magazines (Inside the Vatican, Crisis, National Catholic Register, New Oxford Review, Envoy, Laywitness, Catholic Dossier). This is an incomplete list, of course, and a good many resources for theologically 'conservative' Catholics are also available online.

Is the market saturated, at least to the point where a publication like Crisis really needs to find its own unique - and possibly dubious - niche in order to survive?

Neil

[Seamus]

Karl Keating was hardly the first to "challenge conservative Catholics to rethink Hiroshima and Nagasaki." In fact, many conservative Catholics never had to rethink the issue at all; the names of Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn and G.E.M. Anscombe are among those that come to mind. Keating is firmly within a tradition that, ever since August 6, 1945, has found the bombings inconsistent with Catholic teachings regarding ius in bello.

[Whitcomb]

Re military conscription:

There is something disconcerting to me about our Army-for-hire. It seems only a slice of our populace is carrying the burden of fighting this war. Last I heard, only one member of Congress had a son fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan. You will find few people from the elite colleges and universities in the service. One of the benefits of the draft was bringing people together from different backgrounds in shared sacrifice. This was surely true in WW II, perhaps less so in Vietnam. Our president today asks nothing in the way of sacrifice of the population at large.

Catholics such as William F. Buckley Jr. and E.J. Dionne endorse "universal service,'' though not necessarily in the military. They argue that each generation owes a debt to the ones that preceded it. Giving up one year of your life to do some good for your fellow citizens acknowledges this debt.

[Jason]

The only encounter I've had with Crisis is getting appeals for a subscription in the mail. Both time, it had wild headlines to get my attention, like "Was John Paul I Murdered". I thought it was a joke until I opened it up and read it was a letter from Hudson.

[Jason]

>>>"only one member of Congress had a son fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan."

How is that relevant? I probably agree with you that mandatory service to your country is a positive, I never understood Michael Moore's rant in his movie about how congressmen have no children in the military. How does a parent "send" their son to war? Joining the military is a free choice.

[Christopher Rake]

Superb effort by Keating. As Keating said there is nothing particularly Catholic about the piece on conscription and empire (as he descibres it); there are many other places to debate such issues but fewer specifically Catholic high-quality forums like First Things.

[WRY]

Off topic, but some years ago I went into the student bookstore at CUA in DC and asked for their selection of "Catholic magazines." They didn't have any.
I wandered over to this independent bookstore near the campus and repeated the question. The proprietors laughed out loud!

[Whitcomb]

When 535 lawmakers, not to mention the president's key advisers, can count on one hand the number of relatives in the service, it suggests to me a disconnection between the policymakers and those sent to effect the policy.

Iraq was a war of choice, not of necessity, and perhaps if more policymakers had children who figured to be in harm's way we might have had a more thoughtful debate about going in the first place.

[Seamus]

"specifically Catholic high-quality forums like First Things"

Actually, I don't believe that First Things, while edited by a Jesuit priest and decidedly Catholic-friendly, is an explicitly Catholic publication. It is published by The Institute on Religion and Public Life, which bills itself as "an interreligious, nonpartisan research and education institute whose purpose is to advance a religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society."

[Maureen]

It always amazes me that St. Anthony's Messenger never comes up in these discussions. It's nicely middle-of-the-road in its Catholicism, attractively laid out, and exactly the right length.

Not to mention the everyday usefulness of their website. http://www.americancatholic.org/

But then, I guess it doesn't advertise a lot or put itself on parish reading racks, so people overlook it....

[Sandra Miesel]

I too was surprised that Keating didn't attack HW Crocker's paen to American imperialism, one of the most offensive essays I've seen in a Catholic magazine in ages. Fran Maier's article on universal conscription doesn't make a good case but Keating took gratuitous swipes at Fran that suggest other agendas. Note: I used to work for Fran when I was a Contributing Editor at the old REGISTER and liked him a lot.
And for the recipient of the CRISIS advertisement: I wrote that cover article on JP I and concluded that he had not been murdered. I've written a lot for CRISIS over the past three years and none of it has been political.

[Downto]

I have read Crisis for many years and I would say that over all the quality of the writing has greatly increase since the early 90s.

Although Crisis has a political wing, it still has many other features and interesting articles that are not conservative specific, but simply devout-specific.

Interesting, too, is that the most credibly political writer for Crisis was always the most idea nonpartisan for the magazine: Mike Uhlman.

Keating is half right, but only because of Deal's errors in judgement and sizable character flaws (the two very much related), not because of the move to Washington.

[Fr. Rob Johansen]

Rich wrote:

BTW, I'm struck by the fact that Hudson is still so visibly associated with the magazine.

Deal Hudson's resignation from Crisis only took effect officially as of January, so it should be no surprise that he appeared "visibly associated" with the magazine until now.

If he still appeared on the masthead or had columns, etc., in the magazine as of March, that might be cause to wonder.

But I'm pretty sure you won't be seeing that.

[Fr. Rob Johansen]

Rich wrote:

BTW, I'm struck by the fact that Hudson is still so visibly associated with the magazine.

Deal Hudson's resignation from Crisis only took effect officially as of January, so it should be no surprise that he appeared "visibly associated" with the magazine until now.

If he still appeared on the masthead or had columns, etc., in the magazine as of March, that might be cause to wonder.

But I'm pretty sure you won't be seeing that.

[Fr. Rob Johansen]

Sorry for the double post - I could have sworn I only hit the button once!

[Sandra Miesel]

Fr. Richard John Neuhaus is not a Jesuit but a secular priest. Michael Uhlmann is one of the CRISIS writers who severed ties with the magazine over the Hudson matter.

[Rich Leonardi]

Do any of you four previous posters read Crisis? Does Keating's analysis square up with your personal experience?

There have been a handful of recent issues that seem a bit too political, e.g., the Crocker cover story (which I thought was done somewhat tongue-in-cheek) and the one Keating describes. But in fairness to Brian St. Paul, the current editor, he doesn't mention that other recent issues have featured Mark Shea on Marian devotion, George Sim Johnston on Vatican II, a good expose a few months back on VOTF.

I suspect Keating is leery of the magazine's continued association with Hudson and the fact that Catholic Answers probably gets lumped in with Crisis on occasion.

Seamus,

Keating targets the "in the pew" Catholic. I doubt most of them have even heard of the authors you cite.

[Cheeky Lawyer]

I agree with some of Keating's points but he also seems off on some too.

First, about the NCR, that's a pot shot and not a very persuasive one at that. I am not sure if I ever read it before the Legion took it over but if its current quality is any measure than there was either much room for improvement, it hasn't improved much, or worse, it actually has gone backwards in terms of quality. Whole articles just ending, typos, thin articles, etc. I still like looking at it but it doesn't strike me of being really great quality.

Second, it is funny to hear Keating lecture Crisis about how it is so political and narrow when in my mind Catholic Answers' voting guide was of the same ilk. Start with its title: Voter's Guide for Serious Catholics. I'm sorry. I consider myself a serious Catholic and title just rubbed me (and I am sure many others) the wrong way. It was simplistic and conclusory and I think fair criticism can be made that it neglected a whole swath of Church's teaching.

Then take the magazines he compares Crisis to at the end: I just no longer think of it as I think of 'Catholic World Report' or 'Laywitness' or 'New Oxford Review' or, for that matter, 'This Rock.'"

New Oxford Review? Is he serious? Please. That thing is a shell of its former self from what I understand and is increasingly strident and disgusting in its tone.

It is also interesting to look at the journals that Keating points out or Crisis itself. As much as I disagree with publications like America and Commonweal, I am struck at how much better their writing and substance is. I look on them a bit with envy wishing we had a Catholic publication that was as meaty as those. First Things doesn't count because it is an ecumenical and inter-religious journal (by the way edited not by a Jesuit but a priest of the Archdiocese of New York).

So while I agree with Keating to a certain extent, I think he overplays his hand and perhaps adopts a similar mode as Deal Hudson's letters.

[Rich Leonardi]

Fr. Rob,

He's written at least one Sed Contra column and I believe an article for the new issue. He also penned a post-election piece for National Catholic Register. You'd think the man would act like the Brits do in the face of scandal and lay low for a bit.

[Seamus]

"by the way edited not by a Jesuit but a priest of the Archdiocese of New York"

I'm sorry. For a moment I was conflating Fr. Neuhaus (the priest of the Archdiocese of New York) with Fr. Fessio (the Jesuit editor of Catholic World Report).

[Jason]

>>>"When 535 lawmakers, not to mention the president's key advisers, can count on one hand the number of relatives in the service, it suggests to me a disconnection between the policymakers and those sent to effect the policy."

I still don't see how that is relevant to anything related to the declaration of war. Are the children of congressmen robots? Can congressmen flip a switch which convinces their children to join the military? Each person is their own person. They decide what their course in life is to be. Congressmen don't run their children's lives anymore than regular parents do.

>>>"And for the recipient of the CRISIS advertisement: I wrote that cover article on JP I and concluded that he had not been murdered. I've written a lot for CRISIS over the past three years and none of it has been political."

I didn't mean to suggest anything negative. Just that the way the magazine was advertised struck me as fantastical, like if I REALLY want to know what's what in the world, I need to get Crisis.

[austin]

I like the way Crisis has a conservative Catholic perspective, and the way its articles comment on popular culture, philosophy, and history. I don't agree with everything (such as the article about the draft for everyone--and my son is going to Iraq). There are already Catholic magazines that deal exclusively with churchy things; Crisis' perspectives are refreshing. Things get bland and boring if everything has to be written with the doctrinal exactness of an encyclical. Write a letter to the editor if you disagree.

[James Kabala]

Crocker's article certainly was awful. I'm glad to see that someone else (especially someone as intelligent as Mrs. Miesel) feels the same way.
Another cover story that I found to be kind of non-germane was Duncan Anderson's article on global warming. Not being a science expert, I don't know anything about whether the article was accurate or not, but I'm not sure what it had to do with Catholicism. Not that everything in the magazine should have toi be overtly religious, but as I recall, there wasn't even much of an effort to connect that particular article with religious issues.

[JACK]

Sandra:

Thanks for mentioning the Crocker piece in Crisis. I had the same reaction that you did. I was utterly shocked that that was published by Crisis. It wasn't just that it was political, but that it tried to justify itself with the cloak of the faith that disturbed me so deeply. I had bought a copy of Triumph but hadn't read it yet. Now I wonder a bit about the viewpoint it might contain.

Cheeky Lawyer:

I have to say that I am in a similar position as you, although maybe I read Keating's letter with a bit more approval. I agree with the comment about NCR. The proofreaders working for NCR (if there are any) should be fired. Way too many typos. Crisis has definitely become more politics than faith, which I wouldn't care about, if it felt stately versus partisan. I'd cancel my subscription if it weren't for the fact that there isn't much out there that's better in the Catholic periodical space.

I'm less critical of Catholic Answers' voting guide, but your post helped me identify what I don't like about most Catholic publications. Even those that aren't about politics have some of the same feel as what one might expect from a political journal. And that means they don't feel entirely Catholic. I'm not sure if I can entirely put it in words. But I read in these journals, typically, articles critiquing the culture, dissenters, bishops, bad understandings of history, etc. All well and good and serves a purpose. But it lacks a certain feeling of fullness about actually living the faith. Of being Christ present. It feels sometimes too club-like: like minds chatting about those not in the room. I wonder if a magazine like Traces is any better.

Okay I just read that paragraph and I think I was remarkably unclear. Maybe someone else will better express what I think I am getting at.

[James Kabala]

Judging from the few articles by him that I have read, Crocker's worldview seems to be romantic militarist/neo-Confederate. Perhaps as a result of their attitude towards Sherman's march and so forth, many modern-day Confederate sympathizers redeem themelves by being very concerned about civilian casualties, torture, the difficulties of imposing freedom by force, etc. - in general, having a non-bloodthirsty attitude toward world affairs. Crocker, however, seems determined to have the worst of both worlds.

[Tim F.]

This seems to be more intra-Catholic fighting. Why should I care whether Karl Keating was concerned when Crisis moved to Washington? And if the magazine wants to be political, so what. It may not be Catholic Answers cup of tea but it is a free country. I also did a double take at the NOR comment by Keating. I was waiting to hear from certain commentators but only heard crickets.

[Tim F.]

I am currently reading Triumph. Crocker is pretty harsh with the Orthodox, which bothered me a little. I have only gotten to the French Revolution. All in all I have enjoyed reading it. I can't speak with regards to his other writings since I have not read them.

[Rich Leonardi]

I've read Crocker's book "Triumph" and a handful of his essays. He rejects the nation state as a model of governance, describes himself as a "Catholic-Monarchist-Imperialist", and would like to see a return to Christendom a la sixteenth-century Spain. Like Niall Ferguson, he sees America as the only country with the ability to pull it off.

[Patrick Sweeney]

If I recall correctly two publications that aligned closer to the theological side than the conservative political/cultural side of Crisis were Sursum Corda and Catholic Dossier both of which failed to attract sufficient subscribers to stay in business.

If there's an audience for New Oxford Review, Culture Wars, Sojourners, and Mother Jones, there's an audience for Crisis.

People like reading stuff that's got advocacy of a worldview.

[mio]

While I admire Karl Keating, I think he's stretching a good bit in trying to indict Crisis for being "too political" on the basis of a single issue.

By comparison, take a look at the issue (12/04)preceding the one that drew Karl's ire. I see:

- An (exellent) article on Marian Devotion by (ahem) Mark Shea
- An article on the Theology of the Body by Christopher West
- A (not to my taste) satirical look at NFP by H.W. Crocker
- An informative article on the "new movements" in the Church, and
- A remembrance of Thomas Merton.

Not to mention that EVERY issue has excellent columns on music, film and books.

Just another political magazine? I'd hardly say so.

(As an aside, I also really can't see recommending New Oxford Review in its recent going-rapidly-off-the-deep-end state).

[Tim F.]

Rich,

That's pretty interesting. There is one problem with Crocker's desire for America to restore Christendom. The USA is not a Catholic country. According to E. Michael Jones of Culture Wars, the battle to ensure that was being fought and won even before Vatican II.

[Tim F.]

Regarding Keating's criticism of Crisis and in light of mio's comments. Might there be a marketshare struggle going on? It could happen.

[Nancy]

"First Things doesn't count because it is an ecumenical and inter-religious journal"

and Midge Dector (sp.?), wife of Norman Podhoretz (yippee,here comes World War 4) is somehow involved with it. Dector and Podhoretz are erstwhile Communists, now neo-cons.

[Paul N.]

I'm sorry I missed the article on Marian Devotion by Mark - he's an ok Joe in my book, even if he's a little hot on us "rad trads"...hehe (For full disclosure, I don't go to a Latin Mass).

Anyway, I stopped getting Crisis about 2 years ago. I also stopped getting This Rock, although my father gave me a gift subscription. My experience with both is that the magazines were ok, but man o man, the solicitations for money seemed a bit over the top.

Each magazine serves its' purpose. So what if one trends towards the political while another one doesn't?

[Carol McKinley]

"I guess I never picked up a copy of Crisis when it was more theological. For the left-wing politics Catholics have Commonweal and America, what's so wrong with having Crisis on the right-wing for politics?"

Patrick,

Don't you get it?

[Press]

I didn't really see the article on "The Wall" weaving through the Holy Land as "political". It was simply a first hand account of what is happening to the Palestinian Christians. Having lived in Jerusalem for two years, I know about their plight. My wife and I are Catholics today largely because of the witness of the Palestinian Catholics we met I am happy when others, especially Catholics, can learn of how U.S. tax money going to Israel hurts our brothers and sisters in Christ. Please pray for the Catholics of the Holy Land.

[carol mckinley]

"He's written at least one Sed Contra column and I believe an article for the new issue. He also penned a post-election piece for National Catholic Register. You'd think the man would act like the Brits do in the face of scandal and lay low for a bit."

Unless, of course, Rich, as those of us up here at Bunker Hill, fighting off the Brits on the front lines, need him to get back to work doing what what was irking Joe Feurhard and the proaborts.

Most of us think it really isn't all that scandalous to confess your sins and spend ten years reptenting for it.

God bless!

[Dudley]

I'm a subcriber and I was appalled by the Crocker piece and by the pro-Bush tension generally in the magazine and the e-letters from Hudson.
The current issue is much better, I think, in that it isn't clearly promoting a partisan line (as it had been, recently). The piece about the barrier wall is just reporting on what is there and the impact it is having on the people whose lives are bisected by it.
I think maybe Keating is annoyed that Hudson is still there and hasn't been banished to nowheresville.

[Neil S]

We get everything, from "The Wanderer" to "America" and "Commonweal" and points in between. "Crisis" is not political - which is why the Crocker piece was shocking, aside from how dishonest it was.
"The Wanderer" does everything the "New Oxford Review" does (except literary pieces)only more thoroughly and without a nasty edge. The coverage of errant priests and wacky congregations is excellent, and sometimes funny.

[Maclin Horton]

One more data point: I subscribed to Crisis for the first time a few months ago, right before the Hudson scandal broke. My opinion is mixed so far. I'm not sure I'll renew. I haven't read the Maier article yet (always running behind on my periodicals) but the title certainly raised my eyebrows, as did the American Empire one.

I do like the cultural stuff, though: intelligent commentary on books, music, and film but from a more orthodox perspective than you get in American or Commonweal. Actually Crisis seems to be most comparable to the latter.

You folks remarking about NOR: I haven't read it for a while but you're confirming my impression. Is it heading in an E. Michael Jones sort of direction?

Nancy, I didn't think the Podhoretz-Decters were actually Communist, although they were certainly liberals. You sure about that?

[Jason]

RE: Crocker's Triumph.

I put the book down as soon as he contradicted the inerrancy of Scripture. I was completely disgusted.

[carol mckinley]

I think the bottom line here is, if anyone who is loyal to the Catechism and Magisterium has had any success whatsoever trying to Humanae Vitae past the goalies inside of the USCCB and the Chanceries to teach the faithful in the United States, we would love to hear from you in Massachusetts.

Karl Keating's own Guides were tossed out from the same "faithful citizenship" (a McCarrick farce)he seems to defend.

The days are over where Church teachings are tolerated inside of the Temple and can be spoken of in terms of creating civil liberties and laws that reflect our duties to defend the faith in the public square.

When this all shows up at your State Houses (and its only a matter of time) and inside of your CCD classes (Boston Bishops are helping what makes them so succesful right to your hometown courtesy of Anthony Rizzutto and SIECUS)..this is all going to have a new meaning for everyone.

The Keating letter is very disappointing and way out of touch with reality.

[Julia]

I started getting Crisis in 2000 when I took over my dad's subscription when he passed. Other than great conversations with my father and my Jesuit cousin, I had not had much exposure to intellectual Catholic thinking since I graduated from a Jesuit college many years ago. It was a real revelation and great to catch-up on Catholic stuff that nobody in my social circle cared at all about.

I sometimes think that most of the posters here are either Catholic academics, writers, religious, ex-religiou, theologians and canonists. Not that there's anything wrong with that - in fact, I learn a lot lurking here.

Anyhow, I've seen the change in Crisis to more emphasis on politics and I finally let my subscription go last year. I'd rather get my right of center stuff from National Review.

But, I miss Terry Teachout and the monthly article on music and the info I'd pick up that I wouldn't have known to even go look for. Also, remember that Crisis had a cover story on the scandal a year or so before all h.... broke loose in Boston.

Now that Deal is gone (I found him smarmy even before the scandal broke), I hope it will recover. There are lots of regular folks like me who have no personal connections to higher level discussions on the faith and the culture. I'll have to give it another shot.

PS I think one of the great services that Amy probides is a clearinghouse pointing out articles of interest & values to curious & interested CAtholics. Lord knows, we don't get thins stuff from the pulpit.

[Nancy]

Maclin:
I know he had a big changeover and became an anti-communist. He wrote a gossipy book a while back in which he relates his break with the lefty, Stalinist in-crowd. Called the book "Ex-Friends".
I'd have to research his exact political status prior to the break. Maybe "Communist" was too strong, and careless of me.
Nevertheless, he and his wife are now neo-cons.

[Cheeky Lawyer]

I assume the Midge has some religious faith but I suppose one could say that First Things appeals to more than the just the religious though that is certainly its focus. I don't think someone like Leon Kass has much religious faith but he would be considered part of the First Things crowd. There has to be a term for this...perhaps people of good will interested in virtue, truth and culture?

[Mark Shea]

Seeing the pile-on that has followed my barely awake early morning "Bravo" I feel the need to clarify what I was reacting to. Specifically, what I was applauding was not Keating's take on NCR or Maier (full disclosure, I write for the former and know nothing of the latter or of his tenure--then again, I write for Keating now and then too).

Primarily what I was cheering on was the encouragement for Catholic publications to "not push what the Church doesn't push". I agree completely with Keating's contention that it's ducky for lay people to hold forth on whatever floats their boat in terms of prayer, culture and politics. But I also agree with his (and Romans 14's) contention that in matters of liberty, it is best to leave room for differing opinions and not make the Faith too closely allied with a particular ideology or aesthetic. As my experience in cyberspace has shown me, when you do mingle them, you tend to get excuses for abortion from Lefty Catholics and excuses for torture from Righty Catholics. That bothers me and that's what my "bravo" was all about.

[Maclin Horton]

Nancy,

Yes, most very definitely neo-cons, if the term has any meaning at all anymore, which I sometimes wonder. As you probably know they are among the words for whom (maybe by whom?) it was coined. It's just that I had the impression they had been something closer to anti-Communist liberals in the '50s or so. But I could be wrong.

I remember very vividly a piece by Midge in either the Atlantic or Harper's ca. 1975 called something like "Liberal Parents, Radical Children" lamenting the sorry condition of many of their generation's children (drug-addled, politically loony, etc.)

[Marie]

Crocker's NFP article in Crisis was so offensive that I decided not to renew.

[Sandra Miesel]

Crocker is a Confederate apologist. He caught my intensely hostile attention with his first CRISIS appearance in which he touted the Spanish Inquisition and the French Foreign Legion (!) as among the top ten "glories of Catholicism." I find his views disgusting disgusting and his historical judgments dubious in the extreme but he has quite a following.
Deal Hudson remains in charge of fund-raising for CRISIS, in his original office.

[Christopher Rake]

Well, I've certainly learned a lot from this discussion, including the ever-constant fact that I need to read more widely.

When I praised the Keating piece, what I really had in mind was his discussion about Crisis becoming just another political commentary magazine with some Catholic stuff thrown in. But I read First Things regularly and Crisis irregularly, so the truth is I'm not in a position to say much about Crisis per se. What I should have said was that I agree with the idea that there are enough political journals of various stripes out there, and that I already read them, and when I approach a publication advertising itself as Catholic in some way then what I want (as opposed to what its editors may want) is a primarily Catholic focus. A story on global warming, for example, is fine as a departure from the norm; it just shouldn't be the norm.

With that in mind, I still see First Things as a "specifically Catholic" publication, even though I appreciate a comment above about its ecumenical outlook (other comments I appreciate less. But I take it to be a Catholic ecumenical outlook; in other words, talking about other faiths (and non-faiths) and the world in general as it might appear to Catholicism.

So, for example, the November issue of First Things has a story about....global warming, and another on the psychological and social-science aspects of sex-change surgery (!), but most of it is taken up with: An eleven-page symposium revisiting Fr. Neuhaus's The Naked Public Square; an article titled The Witness of Czeslaw Milosz; an article by a Catholic professor on her life in an orthodox Jewish neighborhood; correspondence about "The Judaisum of Jesus," "a Catholic Shakespeare?," "reckoning with Goldhagen," and "Catholic Charities?;" and book reviews concerning Nietzche, an Orthodox theologian's examination of "papal primacy," Pius XII, and that book titled "Total Truth: Liberating Christianity from its Cultural Captivity." And of course Fr. Neuhaus's The Public Square column, whose leader is called Episcopal Straight Talk, primarily about the role of Catholics in public life and the USCCB and individual bishops' comments about communion, abortion, And All That.

[JACK]

"...an article by a Catholic professor on her life in an orthodox Jewish neighborhood; .."

Chris, thanks for reminding me about that article. One of the more interesting things I have read in any Catholic-oriented periodical in months and months.

[Christopher Rake]

I was also fascinated by that one, Jack.

[Sandra Miesel]

I must correct my previous post: Deal Hudson is moving his office. He will be raising money for Morley Publications (which includes CRISIS as well as book publishing). He will not have any further direction connection with the magazine.

[Christopher Rake]

Oh, and that The Naked Public Square Now symposium is actually 15 pages long--providing you with nearly 50% more Catholic-ecumenical content in that section alone!

[Tim F.]

Wow! Crocker's really getting blasted.

Jason, what page of Triumph contradicts the inerrancy of Scripture? I would like to go back and read it. That is if it was before the French Revolution.

And what has he written about the confederacy? There have been a couple of comments to this. Are these articles online or only available from the dead tree version of Crisis?

[mio]

My experience with H.W. Crocker is limited, but based on his attempts in Crisis (the NFP thing, the American Empire piece), I think he hasn't quite got the knack for satire down yet.

And as someone else mentioned, "Triumph" was horribly uncharitable to our Orthodox brothers and sisters (both living and historic). I hope that very few Orthodox read it, lest our relations get set further back.

[Tim F.]

mio,

What did he write about NFP in Crisis to which you and Marie refer?

[Maclin Horton]

Christopher,

Very interesting that you (and I guess others) see FT as a Catholic magazine. Its whole point originally, as I understood it anyway, was to bring together religious conservatives of all sorts. I'm pretty sure there were one or two prominent Jewish (neo-)conservatives, perhaps Podhoretz or Decter, on the board--"were" because there was some talk about people leaving the board a few years ago over a controversial article. Wait, lessee...(links to FT web site)...yep, Decter is still on the editorial board.

I don't read it regularly--too much of it is too academic for my taste--but I browse it online, and it does seem to be dominated by Catholics.

[Seamus]

Crocker's article about NFP was to the effect that we Catholics ought to stop touting the supposed effectiveness of NFP for avoiding pregnancy, since "anyone" with experience "knows" that it doesn't work, and that we should instead try to sell it precisely on the ground that it *doesn't* work, and that if you try to use it you'll soon be joyful parents of a big happy family that will be as fun as a litter of puppies. I think he was trying to be funny. I'm pretty sure he didn't succeed.

[Mark Shea]

By the way, I too disliked the "Empire" piece from Crocker a great deal (didn't see the Maier piece, but from the descriptions, it sounds like something I disagre with). And I've disliked some of Hudson's GOP boosterism in the past (and his attempts to enroll me in same).

However, there's one more point I would like to make (I checked with Brian Saint-Paul, the editor at Crisis, to see if I was breaking some editorial taboo by mentioning it ahead of time and I'm not): It should be noted that in March Crisis will be running a piece I wrote that is severely critical of various Right Wing apologists for torture. Given the way in which Bush supporters and various members of the War Party have twisted themselves into pretzels to soften the ground for, make excuses for, rationalize, advocate for, and nuance the calls of people like Ledeen, Chavez, and McCarthy for torture, I think it speaks very well of Crisis that they are willing to challenge the Rubber Hose Right on this.

Finally, I suspect much of this discussion, with respect to Crisis, is closing the barn door after the horse has left. Hudson is on the way out and my sense of Mr. Saint-Paul is that he's not nearly the GOP booster that Hudson was. If you look at the four issues before January, you'll note that out of 20 feature articles, there's a grand total of 4 political pieces. It looks like Crisis is getting less political than it was, not more. Of course, January 2005 is political cuz it's election followup stuff.

Anyway, this will teach me not to write one word responses to things that deserve more complex responses.

[Rich Leonardi]

Tim F.,

Crocker wrote one of those "leadership" books on Robert E. Lee. And while the Confederate cause is dubious, I suspect Crocker's libertarian instincts are offended by Washington's statism and overreach during and after the Civil War.

Crocker doesn't defend the Spanish Inquisition at all; quite the contrary, he attributes its excesses to the fact that it was a state-run affair. He does say nice things about the Church-run Inquisition, noting that its courts were filled with appellants because of their reputation for leniency.

I do get his satire and, forgive me for saying it, find it quite funny. He lamented the Holy Father's apology to the Orthodox for the sacking of Constantinople during one of the Crusades by saying we ought to commemorate it with a feast day.

For twenty five years, JPII has made overtures to the Orthodox only to be shown the back of their hands. God bless him for trying, but I don't fault Crocker for finding them insufferable.

[Loudon is a Fool]

Wow. Humor is evidently lost on this crowd. Particularly on the fairer sex (no offense intended, ladies). I guess women who use NFP really are in love with their cervical mucous. Who knew? But, like Crocker, if my wife spoke in those terms I would have her committed.

The NFP article was humorous and rightly skewers the "I use NFP because it works" crowd. It shouldn't be taken as article critical of NFP, but as an article critical of bizarre neo-Pagan womb worshipping on the one hand, and a clinical contraceptive mentality on the other, both of which can often be found in any large group of Catholics. Catholics use NFP because it's open to life. Not because of its contraceptive effectiveness.

I too raised an eye-brow at Crocker's article on imperialism, but anyone who writes a history as sweet as Triumph gets the benefit of the doubt in my book. But, then again, I also like NOR.

As for Crocker's treatment of the Orthodox, would they even be offended by being referred to as "gay Greeks"?

[Christopher Rake]

It should be noted that in March Crisis will be running a piece I wrote that is severely critical of various Right Wing apologists for torture. Given the way in which Bush supporters and various members of the War Party have twisted themselves into pretzels to soften the ground for, make excuses for, rationalize, advocate for, and nuance the calls of people like Ledeen, Chavez, and McCarthy for torture, I think it speaks very well of Crisis that they are willing to challenge the Rubber Hose Right on this.

Well yeah, you would.

Mark, I sincerely hope the article you have handed in is a full and honest examination of what Ledeen and others believe on this matter, avoiding the temptation of obscuring evidence that undermines your case.

Of course I am often disappointed in my hopes...

[mio]

The mucous bit was funny, I'll grant him that.

Tim, for you and anyone else who's curious, the Crocker piece on NFP can be read on the Crisis website. (Click on "Past Issues," then "December 2004")

[JM]

Humor IS lost on this crowd. I have five sons, and found Crocker's NFP piece both hilarious and a wonderful affirmation of life.

[Tim F.]

Mr. Shea,

I thought the discussion was about the e-letter from Karl Keating that Amy posted. Why do you think 75 comments are in response to your one "Bravo"? I assume Amy wanted people to comment on it. I'm not trying to be snarky, but I think you are reading too much into peoples responses. Either that or you forgot this was Open Book and not CAEI. Now where it that winking smiley face when you need him? ;)

[Sandra Miesel]

Yes, Crocker tried to pass off his remark about the sack of Constantinople as "humor." Slaughter, rapine, and plunder are ever so funny, aren't they?
His attempt to whitewash the Inquisitions was no service to the truth.

[Jason]

>>>" Jason, what page of Triumph contradicts the inerrancy of Scripture?"

I don't have the book, or else I would quote him verbatim, but it's in the very beginning, when he gives a little intro to how the New Testament came about. The best I can remember the quote is "While the canon [the Church] approved of was imperfect, with Gospel accounts differing on points of detail", or some such statement. He then quotes another scholar who denies the absolute inerrancy of Scripture. If you can find the exact citation from the book, I'd appreciate it if you would post it, just so as I don't misrepresent what he said.

[JM]

Uh, hello, the humor reference was about the NFP article. But of course, those who have had unhappy childhoods can never allow a positive view of parenthood/family life to go unbesmirched, even if it means completely changing the topic.

[RalphJ]

Keating makes a fair point but it's disheartening to see orthodox Catholics attacking their own. Reminds me of the Democratic party and their circular firing squads. Instead of squaring against secularists, we save our best shots for liberal or conservative Catholics. Or we shoot within our own camp just because another publication isn't exactly like our own.

[Tim F.]

Here is the quote you are speaking of Jason.

"The authority that sorted through this tangle was the Church and while the New Testament it endorsed is apparently imperfect- with gospel accounts differing on points of detail and incident -it is nevertheless invaluable. By any objective standard it is also reliable history - that is an account of actual fact. This is the summary judgement of the popular classical historian Michael Grant, who concludes in his own "historians view of the gospels" that "the picture they present is largely authentic." It is a view widley shared.

[Tim F.]

RalphJ,

After following orthodox catholic websites and blogs for about 2 1/2 years now, I can tell you there are pleanty of circular orthodox Catholic firing squads.

[Tim F.]

page 12 in Triumph for above quote.

[Nancy]

"Catholic-ecumenical content"
First Things is no more Catholic than The Bank of America.
It is published by the Institute on Religion & Public Life which "aims to teach people about the moral and ethical benefits of capitalism".
To see who funds it, go to:
mediatransparency.org

[Jason]

Tim,

Was there a long citation soon after Crocker's words? I remember noting that not only did he deny the absolute inerrancy of Scripture, but confirmed it by quoting someone else with the same opinion.

[Tim F.]

Jason,

He goes on to quote a Paul Johnson. It is a much larger quote but I see what you are saying. I don't know that Crocker agrees with him. I think Crocker is making the case against Sola Scriptura but he might be buying into modern biblical criticism, if I am using the right term.

[Nerina]

I'm so glad I read to the end of the comments on this thread. I thought I was the only one to find humor (laugh out loud humor) in Crocker's NFP piece (which, by the way, was introduced by Brian Saint-Paul as a very "different" take on NFP). Mr. Crocker seemed very happy to have a large family as a result of the "effectiveness" of NFP. That article aside, the cover of CRISIS itself says: CRISIS: Politics, Culture, and the Church. Seems pretty obvious that politics will be discussed at some length. I am generally satisfied with the magazine, am glad to see Deal Hudson disassociated with it, sorry to see Ralph McInerny gone and appreciate most of the contributing writers (especially the above commentators Mark Shea and Sandra Miesel). There are few periodicals that can be all things to all people and CRISIS doesn't even try. I actually subscribe to it for the political perspective. I don't necessarily agree with it all, but it's nice to read articles about stem cell research knowing that TRUE church teaching will upheld. I'll continue to read CRISIS and This Rock because they continue to make me think. If only all media caused our synapses to fire.

[Jason]

Tim,

Yes, I think it's clear that he has bought into modernist biblical criticism, at least to the extent that he thinks Scripture can err in matters of history. He calls the New Testament "imperfect", and by it means that some details in the Gospels are contradictory, rather than just different perspectives that can be reconciled. I think the longer quote from Johnson is important to the context, because it confirms what Crocker himself said regarding Scriptural inerrancy, and does not distance himself from the citation.

[Jason]

I was taken aback by the heterodox opinion expressed because I had expected to read a solidly orthodox history of the Church, given the support it has received from some respectable Catholics. In fact, when Warren Carroll was retiring from the EWTN history forum, and considering Crocker as a replacement, I alerted him to the heterodox portion of his book, and Dr. Carroll said he would reconsider him as a candidate.

[Tim F.]

Jason,

After reading it and typing it (arghh! please don't ask for more quotes) I don't know if I agree with you. I don't know what to make of it yet. I'm sure there are more qualified people than me reading this blog. I know this is not supposed to be about Crocker but he does write for Crisis. So having said that here is the text taking up after the one I posted above.

"But the greatest historical “proof” of Christianity is found not in the Codex Vaticanus or the Codex Sinaiticus, the two oldest surviving , nearly completeBibles, which approximate our own in content, dating from the mid-fourth century. The greatest proof of Christianity is the very fact of its existence. One can strain the New Testament through a colander of modern textual analysis , criticism, and subjective interpretation and be left, in the workds of Paul Johnson, “with a phenomenon almost devoid of significance. This ‘residual’ Jesus told stories, uttered various wise sayings, was executed in circumstances which are not clear, and was then commemorated in a ceremony by his followers.” But this won’t do as Johnson explains lapidarily:

“Such a version is incredible because it does not explain Christianity. And in order to explain Christianity we have to postulate an extraordinary Christ who did extraordinary things… Men and women began frantically and frenetically to preach Jesus’s gospel because they believed he had come back to them from the dead and given them authority and the power to do so. Natually, their evangelical efforts were imperfect, for, despite Jesus’s instructions, they could not always remember his teachings accurately or coherently and they were not trained divines, or orators, or indeed educated people. But, even more important, the teaching he had given them was itself difficult both to understand and convey. Both these factors left their mark on the gospels and explain their imperfections, for the gospels were a transcribed version of what the first and second generation of Christians believed and taught.” (end Johnson quote)

Indeed, Jesus did not write a book. He taught the Apostles, infused them with the Holy Spirit, and told them to make converts of the world. His divine authority was given to men, not to a collated New Testament, and the message His disciples preached was startling."

[Jason]

It's possible, of course, that Crocker, being a convert, just got some bad theology on this point. I hope that is the case, as the Church's teaching on the matter is very explicit.

[Jason]

Tim,

Note what Johnson says:

"...even more important, the teaching he had given them was itself difficult both to understand and convey. Both these factors left their mark on the gospels and explain their imperfections, for the gospels were a transcribed version of what the first and second generation of Christians believed and taught.” (end Johnson quote)"

He is saying that it would be hard for the Apostles to get EVERY last detail write. But we know that they did, because they wrote under divine inspiration.

[Donald R. McClarey]

In defense of Crocker, I would suggest that anyone interested read Triumph. I found it a fascinating and lively review of Church history, seasoned with dollops of good humor. I especially enjoyed his bibliography notes, for example, "Wills, Gary. Papal Sin: Structures of Deceit. Should have been titles, What Embarrases Me About Catholicism When I'm in the Faculty Lounge at Northwestern."

[Colleen]

I like Hugh Crocker, I liked his Triumph book and I find his articles in Crisis amusing since I assume he has his tongue in his cheek most of the time - he appears with Fr. J. McCloskey on Fr. McCloskey's EWTN show and he seems to have an offbeat sense of humor. Same thing on his "booknotes" appearance. He loves to laugh and seems to be a happy Catholic.

I also like Crisis Magazine. There's been some interesting and informative articles I've appreciated and some that I haven't been too interested in - like the other magazines I subscribe to. Maybe it can be a bit political at times, but then, so can most of us. I think 'Crisis' is Catholic first, political second, as evidenced by their articles and authors.

I like Karl Keating as well. I know every magazine has a niche but maybe some of these magazines should combine niches and resources and not have to worry so much about the number of subscriptions they sell. I loved the "Catholic Voters Guide for Serious Catholics" - and I believe it was put out to quell all the different Catholic talking heads who were all saying different things about what the Church teaches - but I wish "serious" had been omitted and maybe "joyful" used instead. I appreciate what Karl Keating did, nonetheless.

I wish orthodox Catholics would stop the circular firing squads. No one is perfect so it follows that no publication is perfect either. You take the good and leave the rest, subscribe or don't.

Reminds me of Michael Rose and "Goodbye! Good Men!

[JACK]

Jason wrote: "Yes, I think it's clear that he has bought into modernist biblical criticism, at least to the extent that he thinks Scripture can err in matters of history."

Whether most will agree with you on this Jason depends largely on what you mean by "history". The Church's teaching on the inerrancy of Scripture is a bit nuanced and I can't tell whether you are coming from the same perspective or not.

[Mark Shea]

I thought the discussion was about the e-letter from Karl Keating that Amy posted. Why do you think 75 comments are in response to your one "Bravo"?

This seems to be my day for sending confusing messages. Sorry Tim. I didn't mean to say everybody was responding to me. I merely meant that my note appeared to be leading a general maul of Crisis and Maier and that's not what I was intending to say.

[Jason]

Jack,

I suppose I should let the Church speak for herself:

"But it is absolutely wrong and forbidden, either to narrow inspiration to certain parts only of Holy Scripture, or to admit that the sacred writer has erred." (Pope Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus)

"In many cases in which the sacred authors are accused of some historical inaccuracy or of the inexact recording of some events ... a knowledge and careful appreciation of ancient modes of expression and literary forms and styles will provide a solution to many of the objections made against the truth and historical accuracy of Holy Scripture." (Pope Pius XII)

[Tim F.]

Mark,

I wasn't looking for a mea culpa from you. Just some serious corporal mortification. Just kidding. I hope the book on The Blessed Virgin is going to be finished soon.

[James Kabala]

Rich Leonardi: Is Crocker libertarian? That's what I was trying to say in my earlier post: a lot of Confederate sympathizers are anti-statist, anti-imperialist, and generally "paleoconservative," but Crocker seems to like the state and state power just fine. (It is true that he has occasionally contributed to "paleolibertarian" site lewrockwell.com, but he certainly doesn't agree with them on the war.)

[JACK]

Jason:

I guess what I can't figure out from your posts are what you mean when you say inerrancy implies historical accuracy.

Your quotes are somewhat helpful. Also, I have always found Dei Verbum helpful on this matter.

So I guess I still don't quite know how you are looking at the terms and thus your critique of Crocker.