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February 11, 2005
Death for the Pope
At church on Sunday the congregation was asked to pray for the recovery of the pope. I have abstained from doing so. I hope that he will not recover.
...So, what is wrong with praying for his death? For relief from his manifest sufferings? And for the opportunity to pay honor to his legacy by turning to the responsibility of electing a successor to get on with John Paul's work? Muriel Spark commented in "Memento Mori": "When a noble life has prepared old age, it is not decline that it reveals, but the first days of immortality." That cannot be effected by the hospital in which the pope struggles.
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
Comments
For a smart guy, Buckley can sure be dumb sometimes. He veers very close to saying, "Old people need to die and get out of the way so that the work they used to do can be done more efficiently by a younger replacement unit."
He seems not to have gotten the point of Noonan's piece yesterday at all, nor the point of why the Pope is determined to carry his cross to the end.
Posted by: Mark Shea at Feb 11, 2005 1:49:43 PM
You'd think that someone as old as WFB would realize that there are people who love him but wish HE would get on with eternity.
Posted by: Michael Tinkler at Feb 11, 2005 1:53:50 PM
Like the scene in the Last of the Mohicans when Daniel Day Lewis' Hawkeye grabs a rifle and puts Steven Waddington's Duncan out of his misery at the stake, William Buckley seeks the quick demise of John Paul II.
I disagree.
Posted by: Eutychus Fell at Feb 11, 2005 1:56:43 PM
Hmmm...Mr. Buckley turns 80 this November. What shall we pray for him?
How about people praying for an organ donor to die so that their loved one can live?
How about praying for suffering people everywhere to just get with it and die so that they don't have to suffer any more, and we don't have to watch (or care for them).
Is Buckley Catholic?
Posted by: Zhou De-Ming at Feb 11, 2005 1:58:31 PM
>>>"So, what is wrong with praying for his death?"
The same thing that would be wrong with praying for Christ to die in the middle of his scourging at his pillar. They both have a redemptive cross to carry, and come hell or high water (or bearers of death wishes, like Buckley), they are going to see it through.
Posted by: Jason at Feb 11, 2005 2:01:46 PM
Mater Si, Papa No!
What a bit of foolishness! Buckley should put himself out to pasture!
Posted by: al at Feb 11, 2005 2:05:30 PM
If it is possible to pray that a loved one, enduring excruciating suffering, be gathered unto God, **if if be the will of God**, is it not possible to pray for the same for another?
I think reading Buckley to say "I wish he'd die already and get out of the way," is a misreading.
Jason --- Christ carried the only redemptive Cross, didn't he? The Holy Father suffers, as we all suffer, but redemption was the work of Christ alone.
Posted by: John Heavrin at Feb 11, 2005 2:05:38 PM
Buckley to the Pope: Communism is gone, so you have outlived your usefulness to neoconservatives. Drop dead.
Posted by: Chris at Feb 11, 2005 2:06:44 PM
John,
No, we are all "co-redeemers" with Christ. As the Holy Father so frequently reminds the aged and suffering, they have a special vocation in this life. Suffering is very precious to the Lord. It snatches souls from hell.
Posted by: Jason at Feb 11, 2005 2:13:01 PM
I think I liked it better when Buckley was stringing together supposedly Thomistic non sequiturs in the 90's.
Posted by: Rich Leonardi at Feb 11, 2005 2:14:30 PM
To clarify what I said, another example is St. Paul calling Christ the "only" mediator between God and man. That doesn't mean we don't mediate on behalf of humanity, but that in doing so, we are sharing in Christ's office as mediator, not acting opposite it. In the same way, we redeem the world with Christ. Not apart from him, but with him.
Posted by: Jason at Feb 11, 2005 2:16:10 PM
"Co-mediators", perhaps, Jason, but not "co-redeemers" (unless I'm missing something). And about the former we should remember that in the sense it's used, "co" more or less means "sub".
Posted by: Rich Leonardi at Feb 11, 2005 2:17:03 PM
Rich,
I think "Co" comes from the Latin "Cum", meaning "With".
"Co-Redeemer" is a title traditionally held for our Lord (Co-Redemptrix, more specifically). She holds the title, because she shared in the work of redemption in a special way. But we are all, in reality, co-redeemers. The Lord doesn't accomplish the work of salvation by himself. He could come down and preach the Gospel to men. He could offer Mass for men. He could offer sacramental absolution. He could pray for man's salvation. But he chooses use us to accomplish those tasks.
Posted by: Jason at Feb 11, 2005 2:20:39 PM
Jason, I think our suffering is "reparative" with regard to our souls and the souls of others, rather than "redemptive," as was the Redeemer's.
And who knew there was such venom abounding for old Bill Buckley...I still can't help but think his wishes with regard to the Holy Father's destiny aren't the same as, say, Mehmet Ali Acga's were back in '81.
Posted by: John Heavrin at Feb 11, 2005 2:21:29 PM
*That should be "Title traditionally held for our Lady"
Posted by: Jason at Feb 11, 2005 2:21:30 PM
For Jason, John and Rich, from CCC:
Our participation in Christ's sacrifice
618 The cross is the unique sacrifice of Christ, the "one mediator between God and men".(1 Tim 2:5)
But because in his incarnate divine person he has in some way united himself to every man, "the possibility of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery" is offered to all men. (GS 22)
He calls his disciples to "take up [their] cross and follow (him)", (Mt 16:24) for "Christ also suffered for (us), leaving (us) an example so that (we) should follow in his steps." (1 Pet 2:21)
In fact Jesus desires to associate with his redeeming sacrifice those who were to be its first beneficiaries. (Mk 10:39 et al)
This is achieved supremely in the case of his mother, who was associated more intimately than any other person in the mystery of his redemptive suffering. (Lk 2:25)
Apart from the cross there is no other ladder by which we may get to heaven. (St. Rose of Lima)
Posted by: Zhou De-Ming at Feb 11, 2005 2:22:10 PM
>>>"I think our suffering is "reparative" with regard to our souls and the souls of others, rather than "redemptive," as was the Redeemer's."
I disagree. The Holy Father makes salvation for some people contingent upon the penance of others. If such and such a person sacrifices for someone, then the Holy Father deigns to grant them more graces for salvation. This grace was made possible by Christ's death and ressurecttion. But it is distributed for many reasons, including our own work in the cause of redemption.
Posted by: Jason at Feb 11, 2005 2:23:31 PM
*That should read "The Father makes".
Sorry for all the typos.
Posted by: Jason at Feb 11, 2005 2:24:34 PM
Last Saturday, I led our women's group in prayer, and asked that the Holy Father either be strenghtened for his work in this life, or welcomed into his reward in eternal life, "according to Thy will."
From the looks on faces after I said "Amen," I think it was a faux pas. But I do think it's all right to pray for the release of someone from suffering, as long as we are open to all the ways that may happen (immediately through healing, immediately through death; eventually through either.)
Posted by: Naomi at Feb 11, 2005 2:24:56 PM
From the diary of St. Faustina:
"I desire that you make an offering of yourself for sinners and especially for those souls who have lost hope in God's mercy...I am giving you a share in the redemption of mankind. You are solace in My dying hour". (Our Lord to St. Faustina)
Posted by: Jason at Feb 11, 2005 2:33:07 PM
Naomi, I agree that underlying all of our prayers is the premise: "Thy will be done.."
I disagree with Buckley, however, and will continue to pray for the Pope's heath.
Posted by: Lynn at Feb 11, 2005 2:43:13 PM
...make that "health."
Posted by: Lynn at Feb 11, 2005 2:44:00 PM
"Your suffering is never useless, dear sick people. Moreover, it's a precious thing," the speech said. "If you bring together your suffering and pain, you can be his (God's) privileged helpers in the salvation of souls".
from JP II just today.
Posted by: Eutychus Fell at Feb 11, 2005 3:03:42 PM
As a long time Buckley fan, i'm flabbergasted at these remarks. Reading the full text does nothing to make me less flabbergasted- it's hard to put a charitable spin on this when he suggests that it would be better to just get on with a new papacy and get rid of the guy who has diffulty with his speech and ambulation. In other words, it doesn't read to me as if he's just wishing that the Pope no longer had to suffer.
The ironic thing is- after years of greatly admiring Buckley, I'm supposed to be meeting him at a dinner at his Manhattan home in two weeks. After reading this, I'm not so sure I want to.
I honestly can't believe what he has written.
Posted by: thomas tucker at Feb 11, 2005 3:08:22 PM
If I suffer, I offer my suffering to God, and unite by intention my suffering with Jesus' suffering and death, to make reparation for the damage caused by my sins, and to "work off" temporal punishment due to them. In essence, by doing so, I'm petitioning God to allow me to serve purgatory "time" during my natural life instead of in the next life. Or, I petition God to allow the reparation I make to be applied to a Poor Soul, of my choosing or His choosing.
But that's all subordinate to Christ's suffering and death, which redeemed the world. We co-operate with the graces offered, or not, but I don't see our actions in life as "redemptive."
Posted by: John Heavrin at Feb 11, 2005 3:09:15 PM
