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April 29, 2005
Guilty Pleasures
(Inspired by the last few comments in the What It Means thread below.)
In which we share the titles of liturgical music we're not supposed to like....but do.
(And if Mark Shea comes on here and admits his fondness for Ashes....I'll be looking for the Second Coming, because it probably will be happening soon.)
(And it doesn't have to be contemporary, either. If some sappy sentimental Mary our Dear, Sweet, Flower-Draped Mama makes your heart beat faster...spill)
(Oh, and you're not allowed to condescendingly critique others' guilty pleasures. Unless yours is worse)
Me first:
My name is Amy and I like...Blest Be the Lord.
I think it's not a great song, and the peppiness is definitely forced, but I'll always associate it with my freshman year in college, the year I got involved in campus ministry, made great friends and got psyched about faith. (And kind of psycho, too, probably, but that's another story). I still dig the descant, and when I hear the song, I still hear the bass fiddle in our folk group, with fondness, too.
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
Comments
I have fond memories of a liturgical experiment I was part of in the late-70s. As a Grade 4(ish) schoolboy my class was permitted to choose a hymn to recite for our penance. Prior to my leaving the confessional the priest asked which hymn I had chosen. For I long time I couldn't figure out why he visibly flinched when I replied "Lord of the Dance."
Posted by: fidens at Apr 29, 2005 11:45:48 PM
While I do believe that God only hears prayers in Latin, I must admit that everytime I'm with my catholic school friends back in LA, we start humming and singing "And he will take you up on Eagle's wing..."
I feel quite guilty, but its a really fun song that has alot of great memories!
Posted by: radtrad at Apr 30, 2005 12:02:54 AM
I love 'Blest be the Lord' for personal reasons. It's actually my first religious memory, sitting on my mother's bed, supplying the words in a piping child's voice.
Mom: Blest be the..
Me: Lord!
Mom: Blest be the...
Me: Lord!
Mom: The God of
Me: Mercy!
Mom: The God who
Me: Saves!
And so on.
Posted by: Eileen R at Apr 30, 2005 12:11:53 AM
Growing up in the Christian Family Movement, it was hard not to become attached to the songs of Carey Landry and Carol Jean Kinghorn.
While I'm not thrilled with "His Banner Over Me Is Love" or "Peace is flowing" these days, I still really like "Only a Shadow" and "The Spirit is A-Movin."
I think I'll get my mother "Hi God!" on CD for Mother's Day. One consequence of a high turnover in church music is that you lose the songs that you lived your life to.
No guilt, but then, I also sang Mozart, Bach, and Palestrina with the cathedral choir growing up.
Posted by: Fred K at Apr 30, 2005 12:20:05 AM
I like Anthem and always have. I'm sure it has more to do with where I was in my life when it was first popular than anything else (as many people seem to note.) But if I were told I would never again hear Anthem, I'd be sad.
Posted by: Radactrice at Apr 30, 2005 12:37:25 AM
All of the songs just named really don't sound al that bad when they are sung a-capella by a good Gospel choir, like you might hear in a Black Protestant church. They do sound tacky when sung by a bunch of crackers, accompanied by a piano or keyboard, trying to pretend they're Black.
Just my opinion.
When done tastefully, I do believe that Gospel music/negro spirituals, and even some charismatic music, can be incorporated into a solemn, traditional liturgy.
Posted by: Eric Giunta at Apr 30, 2005 12:47:53 AM
It's not a guilty pleasure, but it's a rare one: "Be Thou My Vision." And you're supposed to like it.
Last heard by me at my father's funeral 14 years ago:
Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou mine inheritance, now and always:
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart,
High king of heaven, my treasure Thou art.
High king of heaven, my victory won,
May I reach heaven’s joys, O bright heaven’s sun!
Heart of my own heart, whatever befall,
Still be my vision, O ruler of all.
Posted by: Whitcomb at Apr 30, 2005 1:11:52 AM
I remember being incredibly moved by "I am the Bread of Life" ("and I will ray-haze you up!") at my grandfather's funeral. I also like "Hosea."
Don't worry, though! "Ashes," "Anthem," and "Lord of the Dance" are never intoned by these lips!
Posted by: RDS at Apr 30, 2005 1:16:56 AM
Context may be everything in this discussion.
"I Am the Bread of Life" is actually not so bad because it seems to rouse the populace at Mass. Not a bad modern tune for a funeral, either.
"Lord of the Dance" is a great song for kids. My son loved it when he was small.
"Blest Be the Lord" to me is the classic guitar Mass tune. It grabs you sometimes, against your will, even though the lyrics aren't that great.
Another song that is often ridiculed--"Gift of Finest Wheat"--took on a strange poignance for me at the funeral several years ago of Archbishop Daniel Sheehan of Omaha. It was reportedly his favorite song. Maybe that had something to do with it.
Then there is the tune that reminds me of the "Charlie the Tuna" TV commercials. Is it "Every Valley"?
But the champ-een worst modern church song has to be, "They'll Know We Are Christians by Our Love." I hated it when I first heard it in 1970, and I hate it still.
Posted by: Whitcomb at Apr 30, 2005 1:42:33 AM
I mentioned in the thread below that I can't really dislike "Gather Us In." It makes me think of my grandmother for some reason - don't know why, because she never sang anything in her life. I think it might have been sung at the church she took me to when I was about four - anyway, the association is there. I also have a soft spot for "Gift of Finest Wheat."
Whitcomb - I too completely lack love for "They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Love." Skin-crawling. I can be very unloving (working on fixing this, not boasting about it) and this song sets me back about a year every time I hear it. Similarly for a song whose title I don't know but which the musicians at the local Newman Center sang during the Christmas season; I've blotted out most of it, but the chorus started "The angel said Maaaaary, you're gonna have a baaaaaby" and went on for about eight verses. I wanted to go Bluto on their guitars. I wonder how many sins-in-the-heart are prompted by awful music?
Posted by: Sonetka at Apr 30, 2005 2:39:39 AM
Sorry to double-post, but I just remembered a story my dad told me about, this would have happened when I was very young and the USSR was still a viable entity. Apparently the priest at Mass had preached a fiery anti-nuke homily, the gist of which was that if the US would just give up its nuclear weapons unilaterally, the USSR would be so overcome by our moral rectitude that they would give theirs up as well, and all would be joy and harmony forevermore. Good topic, but not in that particular context and with a captive audience. After it was over and the gifts were being brought up, my dad noticed that the music the organist was playing sounded vaguely familiar, but couldn't really place it.
After a minute, a friend leaned over and whispered "Isn't that `Somewhere Over The Rainbow'?" And it was. Played lentissimo.
Posted by: Sonetka at Apr 30, 2005 2:44:50 AM
Immaculate Mary, Salve Regina and that one that used to get played often when I was a kid, but I have no idea what it is (it was old Church because it sounded like the sound track from the movie The Omen). ;)
Posted by: Rick Lugari at Apr 30, 2005 4:52:37 AM
Though it's more like a chant than a hymn, I particularly like the praises that are sometimes sung at Benediction: "Blessed be God, blessed be his holy name, etc."
The words (supposed to have been written in the late 18th century, with later additions) appeal to me very much, and the tune (no idea who composed it) is very simple and complements the words perfectly.
Posted by: Lance Eccles at Apr 30, 2005 5:42:23 AM
I am definitely a traditionalist when it comes to liturgical music, BUT . . . I really don't mind these:
"I Am the Bread of Life"
"Lord, When You Came to the Seashore"
"Hosea"
(Notice how none are by Marty Haugen!)
Posted by: Robin at Apr 30, 2005 5:51:31 AM
As I said below I like Earthen Vessels, although that is the only one of the hymns dragged in during the past 35 years that I have any fondness for. In my defense I should note that I cannot carry a key to save my life when I sing and I suspect I am tone deaf.
Posted by: Donald R. McClarey at Apr 30, 2005 5:54:49 AM
I'll always have a wretched fondness for "On Eagle's Wings". The first parish I joined would sing it every week, and blessedly ignorant of Liturigical wars, I enjoyed it every week.
Posted by: Jason at Apr 30, 2005 6:40:51 AM
For me, the height of the 70's nonsense was singing "One Tin Soldier" and "Let it Be" during Mass. I still remember the overhead-projector lyrics on the wall of the Church and the folk guitarists strumming away like a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young performance. Funny, that was also the same time period we kept losing parish priests to married life!
Posted by: frank sales at Apr 30, 2005 6:43:41 AM
I absolutely love "Be Not Afraid."
Although I usually despise "Michael, Row Your Boat Ashore," I heard a soloist sing it at a funeral of a teenaged boy named Michael, and there wasn't a dry eye in the church, including mine.
Posted by: noe at Apr 30, 2005 6:53:09 AM
Bless me for I have sinned. I like Lord of the Dance (I think it's that Shaker melody). I also like City of God and On Eagle's Wings, the latter is especially good on a CD of inspirational music by Michael Crawford (the orginal and best! Broadway Phantom of the Opera).
As another poster said recently, I shall now submit to my ritual stoning.
Posted by: Cheryl at Apr 30, 2005 6:56:27 AM
Guilty.
"I am the Bread of Life" was sung during communion at a Cursillo 12 years ago. I was on the way back from culture-Catholic agnosticism. 50, out-of-tune guys belting it out (everyone knows the chorus) in a packed chapel, still gives me shivers. The weekend was on a Passion Sunday so "The King of Glory" still gets me going.
Posted by: jerry at Apr 30, 2005 7:02:25 AM
I like "You Are Near" especially the way this group does it.
http://www.hangad.org/audio/streaming/mp3s_you_are_near.ram
Posted by: Art at Apr 30, 2005 7:04:12 AM
+J.M.J+
Though I mostly agree with Thomas Day's book, I really like those "sappy" Marian hymns he decries. I wouldn't mind hearing "Mother Dear O Pray for Me" in Church, and every once in a while I find myself singing "Bring Flowers of the Fairest" - even if it isn't May!
As for the modern stuff, "Blest Be the Lord" is rather nice because it offers praise to God. Though I'd rather hear chant or hymns at Mass, I can tolerate some modern songs that praise God like "Sing A New Song" and "Sing to the Mountains." It's the songs that are all about us, us, US which annoy me the most (Anthem, Gather Us In, etc.).
Ever hear a song called "Sing to God a Brand New Canticle"? The folk group in my parish sang it when I was just a wee lass, and I've always liked it. I think it came from the Charismatic Renewal movement.
"Lord of the Dance" is fun as a campfire song. I sing it to myself every once in a while.
I like "I Am the Bread of Life" because it is taken straight from Scripture and so is a great way to get kids to memorize parts of John 6 and 11. I speak from experience; I was six years old when it first came out; it was my favorite song for a while and I memorized the whole thing.
The album _Earthen Vessels_ has a great song called "Take, Lord, Receive," taken almost word-for-word from the Suscipe prayer of St. Ignatius of Loyola. I don't think I've ever heard it sung in church (it's probably not well-suited to congregational singing), but it's another great memorization device - this time for a wonderful prayer.
In Jesu et Maria,
Posted by: Rosemarie at Apr 30, 2005 7:11:28 AM
I Am The Bread Of Life and Be Not Afraid hold up pretty well. Both based on actual Biblical (or as we Catholics say, Scriptural) passages. Gift Of Finest Wheat completely worn out. They'll Know We Are Christians By Our Love belongs to a time when Charles Curran was taken seriously. Neither should receive that attention today.
Posted by: Gerard E. at Apr 30, 2005 7:22:48 AM
I absolutely loved "Lord of the Dance" as a non-Catholic child attending Catholic school. "City of God" and "Gather Us In" work for me and to be truthful, I'm not quite clear why I'm not supposed to like them. "I Have Loved You" nearly always gets me in tears, even though, when I look at the lyrics, the song-writing leaves a lot to be desired. I guess it's the utter simplicity of the text.
Posted by: Will at Apr 30, 2005 7:26:40 AM
Though the mountains may fall, and the hills turn to dust, yet the love of the Lord will stand...
As a shelter to all
who will call on his name
Sing the praise and glory of God...
I like almost all the up tempo songs, especially as they're usually used in the recessional, and get you out of Mass tapping your toes.
However, the organist at our church can't ever play any song in its correct tempo. Listening to "City of God" in Lento is excruciating. Oh, and "Lord of the Dance" as a dirge. That was interesting. At least it gets my mind off the off-key singing from the cantor. I hope this is an all-volunteer effort, because I would hate to think these people are getting paid for their poor work.
Posted by: Meep at Apr 30, 2005 7:38:38 AM
"Blest Be the Lord" --great guitar Mass song, and great to sing zooming along on a motorcycle, too. (Many moons ago!) One reason it holds up is that key lines come from Ps. 91.
Posted by: Jim McCullough at Apr 30, 2005 7:39:38 AM
There's a version of Veni, Creator Spiritus that goes something like, "By the waking of our hearts, by the stirring of our souls, may the Spirit of God abide and bring us together in peace..." I can't remember the name. I'm sad because it is not in our current Missalette. I love that song.
I really like "Sing to the Mountains" - which we don't sing enough. I also have fond memories of "Blest Be the Lord" and haven't heard it done with such pep and joy since college.
One song that I'd like if it were done correctly is "The King of Glory". As it is, we sing in into the ground at Palm Sunday so that it'll last throughout the whole procession. If it were actually sung like an Israeli folk song it would be great.
Or I'd like to hear it kind of Klezmer style (maybe that's the same thing as "Israeli folk song" - I don't know). But I want to hear a violin/fiddle, a clarinet, maybe even an accoridan. And I would only allow a tambourine if the person did not bang it against their leg like they were in a Salvation Army band.
"THE King of glory comes the NATION rejoices open your HEARTS before Him LIFT up your voices..." ugh.
Posted by: Meggan at Apr 30, 2005 7:48:26 AM
I still sing the sappy Marian hymns to myself sometimes too Rosemary. As for the modern hymns - well there are not too many I like very much but I do like the chorus of Blest Be The Lord. Not the verses though.
BTW, what was the name of the hymn with the chorus: Eat His Body, Drink His Blood and we'll sing a song of love allelu, allelu, allelu, alleluia (we called it the cannibal song back in high school)
Posted by: Ellen at Apr 30, 2005 7:49:18 AM
One more....
Yes! I like "Though the Mountains May Fall" and remember the harmonica part of that song when I was in college. Again, I haven't heard that done with such joy since those college days.
Posted by: Meggan at Apr 30, 2005 7:50:21 AM
Ellen,
"Sons of God" hear his holy word
Gather round the Table of the Lord
Eat His Body, drink His Blood,
And we'll sing a song of love...etc
Posted by: frank sales at Apr 30, 2005 7:56:46 AM
I like all the songs that Sr. Norah Marie used to teach us for practice for our First Friday Mass in the late 70's. Can't help it. This includes Lord of the Dance, where Sister would make us sing really low and sad and then scream out, "because I am the dance and the dance lives on" at the end.
And, as cheesy as it is, my Grandma once sent me a note with the lyrics to Eagle's Wings in it when I was having a very bad time. Every time I hear it, I think of her.
Nicole
Posted by: Nicole at Apr 30, 2005 8:03:54 AM
From the 70s-80s I like some of John Foley's stuff, esp. "The Cry of the Poor" and "Take, Lord, Receive."
On the Haugen front: I hated "All Are Welcome" for many months, but it eventually wore down my resistence. I worry about the dishonesty of the refrain (is there any place where ALL are REALLY welcome?), but the verses have grown on me. "Gather Us In," however, is still barf-worthy. I sing it with gusto, however, and pretend I'm singing "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald."
Posted by: F. C. Bauerschmidt at Apr 30, 2005 8:25:25 AM
I'm so old that I remember Clarence Rivers' marvelous "Glory To God" which I have not heard sung in a Catholic Church in 30 years.
And then of course, there is the music of Lucien Deiss (Keep In Mind) which has apparently fallen into disfavor. And the old People's Mass Book from the World Library of Sacred Music had the Somerville Psalms. And whatever happened to Jean Gelineau?
Posted by: Dan Crawford at Apr 30, 2005 8:32:15 AM
"Seek Ye First" is not too bad. Some of them are a little nostalgic- only because they remind me of how my sisters and I would get into trouble at Mass by cheezing them up. Great fun, entirely inappropriate, but the songs only begged for it. E.G. Making "Indian" noises during "We are one in the Spirit." High ya ya ya, high ya ya ya...and pretending to sneeze during "Blesssssusss o Lord."
Posted by: Abigail at Apr 30, 2005 8:34:05 AM
Over 20 odd years in a UCC Congregational Church I appreciate the great hymns. Be Thou My Vision is one of my favorites. But as a Sunday School teacher I love 'Let Us Break Bread Together on Our Knees'. A gospel spiritual that makes me want to yell to the congregants...Don't you get it!
O God of Loveliness is an all time favorite. I have had the great good pleasure to hear an entire sung Mass in Latin, every year during Lent at the Protestant church! Only to go to Mass afterwards and sing the Hass Haugen team. I have been known to breakdown and cry.
The only saving grace is that very few people here in the NE sing in our Catholic churches. And in my parish, a beautiful one which looks more like a Jewish temple than a Catholic Church, modelled on a tent of meeting, you can't hear if anyone is singing becaue the way the roof is set, all sound moves to the altar.
I can tell that those who do sing, enjoy 'The Bread of Life' and 'Here I am Lord'. I have to admit the chorus from the latter brings me to tears as I contemplate what it is God wants from me.
And are there any Bernadette Farrell songs that are actually singable?
I am reveling in the simple but lovely harmonies of the old hymns I knew as a child, done by Beth Chapman on her CD 'HYMNS".
Since I go to both the UCC church with my husband and family and then to Mass, I am 'fed' musically by one and spiritually by the other. Last week, the UCC service ended on time (one God, one hour) and my husband didn't want to stay for coffee hour so I took advantage and went to the Cathedral in Stamford, CT.
And praise God, Scott Turkington who has been going around the country teaching chant and enlivening our sisters and brothers in it, is the music director at this parish. Every Sunday at noon there is a solemn sung Mass. No "sacrifice table" a real altar,incense, Latin and English hymns, Latin and English liturgy, a kneeling rail, 7 or 8 acolytes with patens (?) so whether you kneel or stand, take in hand or on tongue you are welcomed...it isn't Tridentine but it is a wonderful combination.
I will continue to teach Rel. Ed at my parish to support it, but I have to say, my inclination is to drive to Stamford every week!
Posted by: Chris at Apr 30, 2005 8:50:40 AM
Whitcomb: But the champ-een worst modern church song has to be, "They'll Know We Are Christians by Our Love." I hated it when I first heard it in 1970, and I hate it still.
OH, thou varlet! You have caused me to have a flashback to United Methodist Bible School, in 1971, when they taught this to us. I am standing in the church listening to Mrs. King direct our children's choir, and she's ardently warbling, "We are on-n-n-e in the spirit/We are on-n-n-e in the Lord...." I must have been a cynic from the get-go, because though I was four years old, I still knew what crap that song was.
I can say with great confidence that there are no modern Catholic hymns I like. I could go the rest of my life without hearing "Gift of Finest Wheat," "On Eagle's Wings," and "Gather Us In," and be no poorer for it. But I think that's because I never heard any of these songs until my adulthood. My sense is that a bad hymn becomes a "guilty pleasure" because we associate it with our childhood or youth. I have friends who adore "Godspell" and "Jesus Christ Superstar," even though that's not the kind of music they like, but they have fond youthful memories associated with those songs.
My guilty pleasure is associated with a fervent religious period of my life, the ages between 12 and 14. I was seriously, passionately Evangelical, and I'd break into tears watching the Billy Graham crusades on TV, and seeing people stream forward to the sound of the altar call hymn, "Just As I Am." It's sentimental, but I love its simplicity, its humility, and its unvarnished statement of need for divine mercy. "O Lamb of God, I come, I come..."
Posted by: Rod Dreher at Apr 30, 2005 8:52:55 AM
I admit to really liking Hosea.
I also have to smile when I hear that awful song that includes the lyrics "Come dance in the forest, come play in the fields. And all creation is shouting for joy!!" because I can remember my youngest daughter and her sweet friend singing it with gusto, but under the influence of too many viewings of The Beauty and the Beast", earnestly singing "and all creation is shouting Bon Jour!!"
Posted by: marie at Apr 30, 2005 8:56:04 AM
I have . . . um . . . always liked . . . um . . . "Hosea" by Gregory Norbet. My love for contemporary hymns ends there.
Posted by: Father Ethan at Apr 30, 2005 8:56:42 AM
I often attend the Sunday evening Mass at my parish, which is Life Teen. The recessional is frequently a pop Evangelical song, like "Trading My Sorrows." I like them!
And for anyone else who, like me, has a hopelessly corrupted taste for pop music, let me recommend Ryan Cabrera's current hit single "On the Way Down." Like Rod's "Just As I Am," it is an unvarnished statement of need for divine mercy.
Posted by: Rick at Apr 30, 2005 9:03:11 AM
I'm a recovering Southern Baptist and I still get the willies whenever I hear "Stand Up, Stand Up for Jesus". For those of you haven't heard it, it's very triumphalist and definitely makes you want to march :)
Sorry, but I haven't "fallen" for any of the Catholic guilty pleasures...yet!
Posted by: Phil at Apr 30, 2005 9:16:54 AM
Btw...if you really enjoy your guilty music pleasures, the subscription music services like Napster and Rhapsody are a phenomenal value. (They have non guilty pleasures too, including Gregorian chant).
Rhapsody I believe is giving away 25 free streams per month without requiring a credit card...though beware Real Networks' agressive marketing.
Posted by: Rick at Apr 30, 2005 9:18:21 AM
I like "Abba Father" and "And the Father will Dance". Can I say that in public yet?
Posted by: Dunstan at Apr 30, 2005 9:45:19 AM
I'm afraid most everything I sang growing up was a "guilty pleasure". I've only heard one hymn since that was worse than what I heard growing up: something about worshipping the god of the earth and the god of the sky and the god of the sea. Quite a pantheon we had going on there.
Posted by: Nguoi Dang Chay at Apr 30, 2005 9:51:09 AM
I like Amazing Grace...
Posted by: Rick Lugari at Apr 30, 2005 9:55:23 AM
My name is Ellyn and I like "Bring Flowers of the Fairest ." I didn't always know that is was considered substandard music...and it appeals to the little Lutheran girl in me who wanted so much to become Catholic. It comes to mind too as I am planning my May altar.
For nostalgia...can I nominate "A Mighty Fortress is our God?"
Posted by: Ellyn at Apr 30, 2005 9:56:00 AM
...to be forever banned from the liturgy. ;)
Posted by: Rick Lugari at Apr 30, 2005 9:56:52 AM
Oh...and for my husband, who is now reclining on the sofa and enjoying "The Fairly Odd-Parents," I have been charged with submitting that old favorite, "In the Garden."
Posted by: Ellyn at Apr 30, 2005 10:02:40 AM
Well, the first hymn I ever learned to sing, following my father's deliberate lead, was "Holy Holy Holy". I still have a dear place in my heart for it. But I am not sure that's a terribly guilty pleasure.
Another song learned just after that: They'll Know We Are Christians. I am still fond of it because of many positive spiritual liminal associations from that formative period of my life.
And, "I Am The Bread of Life" was the recessional -- intoned by a warbly elderly soprano -- at my dear grandmother's funeral at St. Augustine's Cathedral in Bridgeport, CT in 1981, so I always think of that any time I encounter the song.
And I sang "You Are Mine" as a meditation when I cantored for a very, very hard funeral for a cousin of mine. Word to the wise: do not try to sing when you have a personal emotional investment in an event like that. Though having been a horn player in a prior life, the experience of steeling myself in that role paid off in this role.
Finally, I am almost certain my mother will want "In The Garden" sung at her funeral, because of *her* liminal associations with it with her late best friend.
Liminal associations can transform many pieces of mediocre music.
But I still can't sing a lot of music without laughing: How Great Thou Art and Anthem come readily to mind....
Posted by: Liam at Apr 30, 2005 10:12:30 AM
I have a profound loathing for just about all contemporary Catholic music, but I must admit, "Here I am Lord" really isn't that bad when sung well. Of course it can't hold a candle to Missae Papa Marcelli!
Posted by: Tom Mckinney at Apr 30, 2005 10:13:43 AM
At Christmastime, "Go Tell it On the Mountain." It was the only song the kids would sing.
Posted by: Chris at Apr 30, 2005 10:16:27 AM
I'm starting to see what a strange place I grew up in. Does anyone else have fond grammar school Mass memories of "Get Together - Smile on your brother" "Let it Be" or "Turn, Turn, Turn"? It was years of singing these before I knew they had a life outside of church.
Posted by: Jack Smith at Apr 30, 2005 10:35:36 AM
A couple of people above mentioned the execrable "Sons of God" which I liked but not for liturgical singing. I learned it in grade school c. 1970 from seminarians at the Archdiocese of Cincinnati's major seminary which was across the street from our school. A couple of times each week they schlepped their guitars over and taught us all the groovy new songs, including that one. (The others included "Let It Be" which we sang at our graduation Mass; please God, don't let it be 1973 again either.)
Anyway my happy memories of this song are from high school. "Sons of God" neatly accommodated a crescendo of electric guitar chords worked up by my Wayne-and-Garth like buddies that reached fortississimo at "eat his body, drink his blood!!!" I can almost taste that 3.2 beer now.
Posted by: John Murray at Apr 30, 2005 10:37:59 AM
PS - I remember by brown polyester pantsuited pricipal with porkchops and indoor shades would have a coronary when some smart aleks would sing it wrong and belt out "Let it Pee".
Posted by: Jack Smith at Apr 30, 2005 10:40:04 AM
Similar to Mr. McKinney, I loathe the dreary drivel of contemporary Catholic music - it's so insipid. And, yes, Palestrina's "Missa Papae Marcelli" is overwhelmingly wonderful in its austere beauty and restraint.
Recently heard, at the conclusion of a Mass, "The King of Love My Shepherd Is" - it's Irish, I think - and it's one of my favorites.
Never did like "They will know we are Christians By Our Love", but do like "I am the Bread of Life".
My vote is to get rid of the happy-clappy-sappy-crappy hymns which have been foisted on us these last 40 years. Gimme luminous-numinous hymns any day !
Posted by: Ed at Apr 30, 2005 10:41:00 AM
""Stand Up, Stand Up for Jesus". For those of you haven't heard it, it's very triumphalist and definitely makes you want to march :)"
I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Southern Baptist, but I have always loved that hymn.
Posted by: Donald R. McClarey at Apr 30, 2005 10:45:07 AM
I have a great fondness for the Christian pop song "You're the Lion of Judah," except that I seem to be unable to sing it without putting on a faux Irish-drinking-song accent.
Posted by: mio at Apr 30, 2005 10:50:34 AM
"Mighty Lord". Puts a spring in my step.
Posted by: K Hammer at Apr 30, 2005 10:54:34 AM
I like "Amazing Grace." I first learned it as a protestant (in my grandfather's congregation) and it has some memories attached to it. I like Salve Regina and the classic litany of the Saints--does that count?
The rest of the Catholic songs leave me completely cold,I'm afraid. They're neon gas station pink C-H-E-E-E-Z-Y and sometimes heretical too.
Arrghhh. So I only sing a few old standards and the rest of the time, not. Mass is not a singalong anyway....
Posted by: michigancatholic at Apr 30, 2005 11:02:42 AM
Well, I grew up enjoying and performing music, even winning a prize for a Mozart performance, and a scholarship. Then in my Protestant evangelical life I did a lot of study of Protestant hymnody. Then I came to the schizo world of modern American Catholic music where, among other things, I sometimes am asked by the monks to intone the chants at the liturgy.
I really don't have any "guilty pleasures" in this department. I really feel that the "modern" OCP/GIA Catholic music is garbage, and I don't enjoy it at all--I'm perfectly guilt free. Sure, I'll be a good boy and sing it in Church, most of the time, but I don't like it. I find it the musical equivalent of commercial television (on which I don't waste my time). I do enjoy Gregorian Chant, and I do enjoy Quality Catholic Music such as Palestrina or di Lasso, or even modern serious Catholic music such as Messien.
I enjoy good music, guilt-free, such as Bach and Handel, or classical Asian Music or folk songs such as Tinsagu nu Hana, a great Okinawan/Japanese folksong about respecting parents, or fun modern music such a that produced by Pink Martini. Even a little Rap or Rock.
But most of the OCP/GIA stuff sung in parishes is both theologically brain dead and musically stupid. I don't enjoy it at all, guilt-free. And I don't have any "good old day" memories associated with it, either, unlike the Jesuit 17th century hymn "Schoenster Herr Jesus" (which comforted me a lot in college), or Bach's "Sheep may safely graze."
I personally know a number OCP artists/composers because of my years in the San Francisco area, such as Ken Canedo, (Fr.) Ricky Manalo, Janet Sullivan Whitaker, Bob Hurd, (Fr.) Cyprian Consiglio, (Br.) Rufino Zaragosa, OFM, etc. Nice folks, but for the most part aside from Bob Hurd's Latin work, and some of Rufino Zaragosa Vietnamese Marian work, I really don't care for most of what they do. I'm really, really tired of Ken Canedo's Masses. But hey, they're trying to make a living, trying to do good for the Church.
Posted by: Zhou De-Ming at Apr 30, 2005 11:07:31 AM
Gotta confess that when as a wee tot I first encountered "O Mother Dear O Pray for Me" I pictured the "fragile bark" as a raft made of tree bark--definitely fragile. It has, alas, a tune I cannot carry.
But to find myself in a nest, a vertitable nest, of "Hosea" lovers! The horor! The horror!
Of the old-fashioned Marian hymns, I like "Immaculate Mary."
What was that '60s song about "Here we are/ Altogether while we sing our song"? Our pastor referred to it as the Sardine Song.
For a really guilty pleasure, I have to say I love "Dies Irae."
Posted by: Sandra Miesel at Apr 30, 2005 11:15:49 AM
If I were concerned about "what I'm not supposed to like" from the St Blog's perspective, I'd have to say Salve Regina, which I remember first singing on retreat at Gethsemani Abbey about 16 years ago. I sing it again when I go to Conception, but someday in the parish, I hope.
My guilty pleasures are many. My first was "At That First Eucharist," which was learned and sung at my parish right around the time I was baptized in 1970, and still has that special allure.
As a musician, my attitude is to play with musicality whatever I'm asked to play, and I'd like to think I'm a good enough musician that I can take a pedestrian melody and do something with it. I'd have to include "Like A Seal" by Landry which I played at several weddings in the late 80's and early 90's. I'm also an "I Am The Bread of Life" convert, mostly thanks to a revamped arrangement for piano and winds. Last item, not liturgical: The Star Spangled Banner, which I enjoy playing more than related patriotic songs more easily sung.
Posted by: Todd at Apr 30, 2005 11:16:01 AM
+J.M.J+
Rod writes:
>>>My sense is that a bad hymn becomes a "guilty pleasure" because we associate it with our childhood or youth.
I think you're right; a number of my guilty pleasures were learned during childhood. And yes, I confess to liking the music of _Godspell_ - not as church music, though the aforementioned folk group did sing some Godspell songs. I like it because I heard it as a child (though I find the stage play a bit too silly now).
>>>I'm starting to see what a strange place I grew up in. Does anyone else have fond grammar school Mass memories of "Get Together - Smile on your brother" "Let it Be" or "Turn, Turn, Turn"?
No, but we learned "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing" in Sunday Preschool, along with some corny song that went something like: "We're gonna shine, shine, shine/ Shine away the night/ Gonna keep our faces/ Smiling bright/ So raise up your hands/ Give them to each other/ Hold on tight - that's your brother!" Complete with gestures during the "raise up your hands" lyric.
Ah, the 70's. Only now do I realize how weird and goofy the era of my childhood was. That decade provided my first impression of the world - which explains a lot, actually....
Also, a folk group once sang "Fire and Rain" at a Mass I once attended, but that was circa 1983, long after the song was popular.
In Jesu et Maria,
Posted by: Rosemarie at Apr 30, 2005 11:27:30 AM
I have to like Lord of the Dance, being in an Irish dance troupe, but only on stage. The rest of that CD is great, too, but not in mass.
One super-trad syrupy diabetic-coma song I learned on a Tridentine retreat once was "Goodnight, Sweet Jesus". It's vile. But I still felt it necessary to teach it to my then-little children. For them, it worked.
The only reason I have a fond memory of "Here I Am, Lord" is because my Brooklyn-Italian grandmother used to walk around singing it in her accent: "Here I-ye yam, Lawd...". But, please, not at Mass.
And my worst song memory of what I used to like was back in the late 70's when I first learned how to play the guitar, my friend and I decided that we were gonna get into that whole "church thing" and offered to play a song for a school mass. And so we told them we'd sing/play the only song we knew that we thought was appropriate thus far: My Sweet Lord. That's God, right? And so, taking our cue from the wanna-be-hip nuns at our all-girls Catholic HS, we tweaked the ending to make it even more inclusive...
(I swear I am not making this up)
"MMMM-mmm Yaweh,
OOO-ooo Krishna,
Vishnu, Vishnu,
My sweet Jesus,
Buddha, Buddha,
MMMMM-mmmm Mary,"
I mean, they're all, like, the same, right?
We had absolutely no idea of what we were really saying. The priests-n-nuns LOVED it. I think they thought we made them hip.
Oh, I can't tell that story...please don't make me click "post"..
Posted by: KH at Apr 30, 2005 11:37:09 AM
Interesting, because I see a blurring of the lines between popular music and liturgical music. I don't think the two are the same at all.
I enjoy popular Protestant religious music--DCTalk, Big Daddy Weave, Michael Card and so on, but it definitely doesn't belong in Mass. I think that often we have not seen this line between devotional music and liturgical music. There is a very real difference you know.
Posted by: michigancatholic at Apr 30, 2005 11:49:22 AM
In the same vein, Petra Praise is dated but great praise music. Not for Mass, though. For in your car!!!
Posted by: michigancatholic at Apr 30, 2005 11:50:19 AM
In defense of They'll Know We Are Christians by Our Love (or whatever the actual title is), I'm sure I'm not the only kid who learned to play folk guitar in the mid 1960s with this song. Only two chords! Or so it seemed.
That was the very first song my second grade teacher Sister Julia (bless her kind and patient heart) taught me to play, and I played the guitar at many folk masses through the 1960s and early 1970s.
I hereby apologize to everyone :-)
Posted by: Cheryl at Apr 30, 2005 11:55:59 AM
+J.M.J+
Speaking of Godspell, those songs seem to hold up fairly well because most of them are drawn from either Scripture or hymns. Consider a few of them:
Prepare Ye the Way of the Lord - not too many lyrics, but they're all from the Bible! :-)
Save the People - lyrics come from a hymn. "Flowers of thy heart/ O God are they/ Let them not pass like weeds away/ Their heritage a sunless day...." Beautiful!
Day By Day: comes from a prayer by St. Richard of Chichester, if memory serves.
Bless the Lord My Soul: From a hymn
All Good Gifts: From a hymn called "We Plough the Fields and Scatter"
Turn Back O Man: Also evidently from a hymn (contained in the Worship II hymnal) though I've never heard the original music.
Alas For You: From Matthew 23.
We Beseech Thee: From an old hymn called "Father Hear Thy Children's Call"
On the Willows: From Psalm 137 (This song also helped me partially memorize that song)
I actually wouldn't mind singing the original versions of some of those hymns in church (not the rock music Godspell version, though.)
In Jesu et Maria,
Posted by: Rosemarie at Apr 30, 2005 12:01:48 PM
Even though I haven't played guitar in Mass for nearly 15 years (yes, I was one of those folks you all love to hate - LOL), the two OCP songs that have stuck to me and still pleasantly come to mind in times of prayer or trouble are Dan Schutte's "You Are Near" and the slightly more obscure "Hold Me In Life" by Bernard Huijbers.
Posted by: Elizabeth at Apr 30, 2005 12:08:57 PM
Rod---
I agree! Along the same lines as "comfort foods", if it happened in childhood, it sticks with you. As a cradle Catholic from a family that was half Southern Baptist, I wasn't aware that some songs were Catholic and some were Protestant. I grew up listening to one grandfather hammer out traditional Catholic hymns on the organ and the other who would tear up at "How Great Thou Art" and "Amazing Grace". I did get quite an exposure to religious music though. I would bet there are not many cradle Catholics out there who know the words to "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition".
Posted by: cw at Apr 30, 2005 12:16:16 PM
As do some others, I always liked "I am the Bread of Life." It was our communion hymn at our wedding (before I knew the "voice of God" hymns were problematic). I also remember hearing it excellently sung by the St Teresa's Church choir where my father sung in the '70s. Their choir's reputation is still quite good. The parish has kept up a great tradition.
Posted by: Peggy at Apr 30, 2005 12:16:20 PM
"Be Not Afraid" is my all time favorite - I was nine when it was first published so it's been a part of my church-going life almost as long as I can remember. "On Eagle's Wings" is another one I remember fondly from childhood.
"I Am The Bread Of Life" - I got so sick of that song when I was a teenager because our choir did that song just about every other week, it seemed. I have a renewed appreciation for it now, but we've only done it once in the 5 years I've been at my current church. The rest of the choir hates that song.
"Shepherd Me, O God" - Oh, no. Marty Haugen. Actually, I love this song because of its flute part (which I play in our choir), but it's gotten a little old this last month. We did it as the reponsorial psalm at our memorial Mass for John Paul II, at Mass on either the third or fourth Sunday of Easter (can't remember which at the moment) and at the memorial Mass yesterday for our parochial vicar's mother, who died on Holy Thursday. If we don't do that one again for a few months (although I expect it to pop up once or twice over the summer - it usually does), I'll be happy.
And I'll admit to "Gather Us In" as a guilty pleasure, just because of the flute part (as a flute player, my favorites tend to be the hymns that have the best flute parts).
I also love just about anything by Fr. Ricky Manalo (he also has some good flute parts on many of his hymns). He has done a couple of seminars at our church and it's interesting listening to him explain the spiritual inspiration behind his hymns (I wonder if the appreciation comes from knowing where he is coming from in his writing). Our choir does his Pange Lingua every Good Friday and we did his Pie Jesu on All Souls' Day and at our memorial mass for JPII.
Posted by: Tracy at Apr 30, 2005 12:19:18 PM
"Holy God, We Praise Thy Name"
I derive a guilty pleasure from belting out words like "cherubim" and "seraphim."
I have a friend who told me about her Pavlovian reaction to this hymn. Since it was always used as the recessional hymn in her parish when she was a child, she knew when it started up that she would soon be able to break her fast. So her stomach rumbles every time she hears it.
Posted by: Vera at Apr 30, 2005 12:23:06 PM
For Sandra...
"Here we are
All together as we sing our song
Joyfully
Here we are
Joined together as we pray we'll always be!
moving on to a verse in which we
"Keep the fire burning
Kindle it with care
And we'll all join in and sing...Here we are..."
I want to know why these songs are permanently etched into my brain.
Posted by: Marie at Apr 30, 2005 12:27:51 PM
"Turn to Me" - the old gender exclusive version, please.
Godspell, yes, thanks Rosemarie for that.
"Turn Turn Turn" and "Get Together". As a second grader I liked the music but sensed even then that there was something inappropriate about playing them in church.
and, I confess to you my brothers and sisters, I still like hearing Abba Father, Hail Mary Gentle Woman, Hosea, City of God, and anything by Rich Mullins.
Posted by: Paul Pfaffenberger at Apr 30, 2005 12:34:39 PM
"On Eagle's Wings" and "Ashes". We sang "On Eagle's Wings" the Sunday after 9/11, and everyone stopped singing at "though thousands fall around you..."
Also, "I Am The Bread of Life" and "Amazing Grace".
And, while I don't care for the song as a general rule, Fr. Stan Fortuna's version of "Kum Ba Yah".
Posted by: Karen Howard at Apr 30, 2005 12:43:54 PM
"Let There Be Peace on Earth" - something everyone sings and belts out, and "Be Not Afraid"
from my time down South, various African American spirituals and some Protestant tunes like "Were You There When They Crucified My Lord", "Amazing Grace", "How Great Thou Art"
any old Marian songs,
and the best song found yet - through 3 kids - to put them to sleep - "Peace is Flowing Like A River"
Posted by: James McGreal at Apr 30, 2005 12:46:17 PM
I'm not sure it's intended, but some of y'all seem to be implying that liking "Amazing Grace" is a guilty pleasure, meaning that it's something you should be ashamed of liking. But hold your heads up. "Amazing Grace" is a great work of religious art that has already stayed fresh for two hundred years and will remain so unless or until changes in language and music make it inaccessible to all but antiquarians.
Likewise, although in lesser degree, for many of the Anglo-Protestant hymns of my youth. It's not just nostalgia that makes them sound far better than most contemporary religious music.
As for guilty pleasures proper, I can't really say that any of the Glory and Praise type stuff merits that description for me. There are some I kind of half-like (e.g. "On Eagles' Wings") but I wouldn't say "guilty pleasure" is exactly the term: more like admitting that somebody against whom you have a long-standing grievance is really not as bad as you had thought him to be.
My actually guilty pleasure would be a lot of the Christian rock-and-roll that's played at the LifeTeen Mass at our parish. In principle I Do Not Approve. In fact a lot of it does indeed rock, and I like it. It helps that the choir/band is really good.
Posted by: Maclin Horton at Apr 30, 2005 12:48:49 PM
"Bring Flowers of the Fairest" and "O, Mary We Crown you with Blossoms Today" and other like it were used in the 50s as outdoor processional music to crown a statue of Mary in the month of May. All the girls of the parish in dresses, of course, had flowers in their hair and it was a cool spring procession. I don't these songs ever sung at Mass.
Dan: our choir still sings Gelineau - some of his stuff is in the Worship hymnbook.
What wrong with Salve Regina? It's ancient. It was the first song sung on the steps of St. Peter's by the group with the Cardinal who announced John Paul's death. It's the last thing monks & cloistered nuns sing before retiring to bed.
Anybody see the opera "Dialogues of the Carmelites"? It's during the French Revolution and the final scene is a line of Carmelite nuns who are one by one mounting the scaffold and being guillotined. They are singing the Salve Regina, the choir keeps getting smaller and finally, as the last nun gets the blade, the hymn stops abruptly in the middle of a word. It's based on a true story and Poulenc didn't fancy it up, it's just the simple chant version.
Posted by: Julia at Apr 30, 2005 12:52:00 PM
"Be Not Afraid," definitely. I like "Seek Ye First" but I'm always a little disoriented when it starts up because my high school choir sang it, led by an aggressively born-again director.
And I love "In The Garden," which my grandmother had sung at her funeral; but I've never, ever heard it at a Catholic church.
Posted by: Vera at Apr 30, 2005 12:54:08 PM
It is interesting to me that the hymns we consider guilty pleasures are the ones we can actually sing, remember the words and that we DO sing when we are at home or alone. So, perhaps, they aren't that bad afterall since we use them to praise God outside of Sunday morning.
Posted by: Radactrice at Apr 30, 2005 12:54:33 PM
People always talk about how bad "Voice of God" hymns are, but I've never really understood the objection. After all, a number of psalms are VOG.
Posted by: F. C. Bauerschmidt at Apr 30, 2005 12:57:37 PM
Peggy:
I sing in St Teresa church choir and yes, it's still a great choir. I sing with your dad in the philharmonic, but I didn't know he used to be at St Teresa's.
Posted by: Julia at Apr 30, 2005 12:59:00 PM
A story about "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" (which I love but hardly hear any more) that I cannot verify as true or apocryphal but that I heard a couple of decades ago:
During WW2, there was a propoganda rally of die Folk in Germany at which Goebbels was the obvious featured demagogue. Attendance at these things was, shall we say, encouraged. During Goebbels' harangue, someone deep in the massive crowd began to sing Grosser Gott, the German original of the hymn we know as Holy God We Praise Thy Name. A large segment of the crowd took it up -- Germans love to sing hymns, after all, regardless of denomination --singing the praises of their True Fuerher in the face of the chief evangelist of their false one.
(I never understood how this actually could have happened, other than it was late in the war and the internal troops had gotten too demoralized or strapped to forcibly prevent stuff like that from happening.)
In any event, I love the story and always think of it when singing that hymn.
Posted by: Liam at Apr 30, 2005 1:02:38 PM
I will always have fond memories of "On Eagles' Wings," because while on one of those interminable two-day drives from Denver to Chicago for family vacation, my absent-minded mother started singing it, only with the lyrics "And He will raise you up/On Chicken Wings..."
I giggle like a little girl every time I am reminded about that. It certainly made the drive feel shorter.
Posted by: Kevin Jones at Apr 30, 2005 1:07:49 PM
Does anybody else remember the Medical Missionary Sisters and "Joy Is Like The Rain"? I was in grammar school when this album (remember record albums?) came out. All of us at St. Sebastian's knew all the songs by heart, and probably can still sing them today. "I saw raindrops on my window: Joy is like the rain..." "I cannot come, I cannot come to the banquet;..." Anyhow, all the songs on this record qualify as "guilty pleasures". fr. j.
Posted by: Fr. Jim Stehly at Apr 30, 2005 1:07:52 PM
I, too, don't understand why folks think "Amazing Grace" is a guilty pleasure.
It is a great Protestant hymn, written by John Newton (1725-1807), a slave trader known as "The Great Blasphemer," who had an "Amazing Grace" conversion experience during a storm at sea on March 21, 1748. He was ordained an Anglican minister in 1764. He eventually wrote 280 hymns, including "How Sweet the Name of Jesus Sounds."
Perhaps the only thing Catholics who enjoy this hymn might feel guilty about is that it is an Anglican hymn of adult conversion/salvation and doesn't really embody Catholic theology.
Posted by: Zhou De-Ming at Apr 30, 2005 1:12:33 PM
But Amazing Grace would easily be compatible with tons of Catholic monastic writings on the hard operations of grace on nature. Some Catholics mistake Amazing Grace for standing for Babdist or Calvinist spirituality (as do some Babdists and Calvinists) but that is not true to its origins. Augustine would have been very comfortable with the hymn, I suspect. Also, there are more verses that Newton wrote than are commonly sung....
Posted by: Liam at Apr 30, 2005 1:17:17 PM
Hi Julia, Yes, I remember. I thought you might respond if you saw my post. I remember that song in particular from those days!
Hope you're well.
Posted by: Peggy at Apr 30, 2005 1:18:21 PM
I think, Zhou, that some are getting a bit offtrack and just naming off hymns they like - which is fine, too!
And this isn't a guilty pleasure, but perhaps someone can help me here - there was a song my college parish sang once - exactly once - during Advent - it came out the charismatic movement/group, and I loved it...and I still like it, and can remember a lot of it, actually. So we must have sung it more than once>
A voice cries out in the wilderness..(beat, beat...)
Prepare the way for the Lord
Make his path straight (pause)
Alleluia!
Every valley will be filled in
Every mouthain and hill be laid low
Every road will be straight
and rough roads made smooth
And all mankind will see the salvation of God!
sort of a mysterious vibe kicks in
In the desert of Judea
Lived a prophet of God
Locusts and honey were his food !
Camels hair was his clothes!
From his mouth came the news!
God's kingdom is at hand!
Jordan waters flow
People come and go
What's the meaning of all this!
Who will bring us righteousness!
Fulfill our heart's desire,
Could it be the messiah????????
I love that song. Without guilt.
And yes, I have done plenty of folk group playing and singing over the past 20 years, myself....
Posted by: amy at Apr 30, 2005 1:23:11 PM
I grew up in a parish and Catholic school that had a strange mix of very traditional and the best/worst of the 70's as well. So I love Holy God We Praise Thy Name (Infinite They vast domain! WOW) and Bring Flowers of the Fairest along with Hosea, Blest be the Lord, and just about everyone els'e mentions of guilty pleasures. I have such strong wonderful memories of Catholic school tied up in all those songs that I must admit just reading this wonderful thread has been a guilty pleasure. I love contemporary praise music, just not at during Mass anymore.
Posted by: Maria Ashwell at Apr 30, 2005 1:23:56 PM
I have a peculiar fondness for "Gift of Finest Wheat" because one of the parishes my family attended back when I was 3-6 years old sang it every single Sunday without fail as the communion hymn. My folks can't stand it as a result, but to me it bring back a certain kind of nostangia.
From a more recent period, I have a certain fondness for a lot of the Steubenville praise songs Lift High the Banners of Love and such like. I can't stand charismatic liturgy, and eventually took refuge in the far more traditionalist parish off campus where most of the faculty and their families went to church. Still, the music kind of stuck in my head.
Posted by: Scotus at Apr 30, 2005 1:27:29 PM
I am very fond of a recent cd acquisition; "Hymns" by Beth Nielsen Chapman. She has a lovely voice and sings from my generation: Ave verum Corpus, Adoramus Te, Panis Angelicus, O God of Loveliness, Salve Regina, Tantum Ergo more . . .
Dick Rood
Posted by: dick rood at Apr 30, 2005 1:28:31 PM
"I often attend the Sunday evening Mass at my parish, which is Life Teen. "
I wonder if assisting at a Life Teen Mass has ever been assigned as a penance.
Posted by: Ed the Roman at Apr 30, 2005 1:47:06 PM
"Michael, Row the Boat Ashore." Not that I want to go back to those guitar-ridden, basement Masses; but it does pleasantly remind me of my very young days in the Church.
Posted by: David Skinner at Apr 30, 2005 1:50:55 PM
Since getting a bit off track has been approved, I think I can honestly say that I'm not particularly attached to any contemporary Kum-bah-yah hymns. Some are more tolerable than others, but on the whole they're far too banal for the liturgy. As far as traditional music goes, I have a deep fondness for O Come, O Come, Emmanuel, and the canon Dona Nobis Pacem.
On a bit of a tangent, a friend of mine pointed out a couple of months ago the misfortune of Catholics making the transition from Latin to the vernacular in the late 60s and 70s. :)
Posted by: rjm at Apr 30, 2005 1:58:58 PM
Slightly off topic song question.
Earlier I mentioned a favorite Okinawan/Japanese folk song, "Tinsagu nu Hana," about respecting parents.
Do any of the parents here know of such songs from other cultures? I realize that this may be heavily influence by Asian and Confucian cultural themes. It speaks explicitly about children's respect of parents, and also implicitly of parents' responsibilities to children. I think it can also be applied to Mary (hey, if "Amazing Grace" can be Catholic, so can "Tinsagu nu Hana").
Here is an English translation of some verses (there are different versions of the song, but all with the same idea):
Just as my fingernails are painted with the pigment from the basalm flowers, my heart is painted with the teachings of my parents.Although the galaxies in the sky are countable, the teachings of my parents are not.
Just as the ships that run in the night are guided to safety by the polestar, I am guided by the parents who birthed me and watch over me.
A polished precious stone, without the polishing is only a stone.
Morning and evening we must polish -discipline/educate- our minds, and we can live a happy life.If you live your life with sincerity and courtesy, this will lead to a happy life.
Your dreams will come true, and you will forever achieve prosperity.
There is a nice bilingual version of this folk song recorded by Dragonfly with "Tinsagu nu Hana" available for free MP3 download at Amazon.com.
Anyway, my questions:
(1) are there such songs of parental honor and responsibility in the West?
(2) is this song appealing to any parents here?
Thanks!
Posted by: Zhou De-Ming at Apr 30, 2005 2:04:12 PM
I love "Gift of Finest Wheat" and first sung it as a Methodist and was actually a little more favorably disposed to Catholicism when I noticed the copyright at the bottom of the page. Also learned "Here I Am" as a Methodist-that was actually the favorite hymn of most of the congregation and the pastor had to fight to not have in the service every week. Also like "On Eagle's Wings", which I first heard at the funeral of a sweetheart's father.
I have seen "Dialogues of the Carmelites" at the Met and the concluding scene with the Salve Regina is impressive both vocally and visually, as the nuns, two by two, disappear in the darkness at the back of the stage-- followed by the sound of the blade dropping and the next rendition being two voices less ....
"City of God" is pretty bad, though.
Posted by: sj at Apr 30, 2005 2:16:56 PM
I remember hearing junior high kids in the parish singing "Joy is Like the Rain." Only a single hearing did print "I heard thunder on the mountain/ Joy is like the rain" in my brain.
For all you who named "Lord of the Dance:" it came as a small shock when I discovered that this was originally a (sort of) Christian song, since my first exposure to it was as a Neo-Pagan anthem. And I wasn't the only erson to make this mistake.
Posted by: Sandra Miesel at Apr 30, 2005 2:24:41 PM
No one likes "Shine, Jesus, Shine?" WHAT? I didn't even go to FUS and I jump around every time I hear that song.
Oooh, and "Canticle of the Sun," is also good.
And then there is my personal fav that we used to sing at "Praise and Worship" adoration my freshman year in college...forget the name, but it goes,
I was glad when they said to me
Let us go unto the House of the Lord
Standing there O Jerusalem
At the gates unto the House of the Lord.
Posted by: CMick at Apr 30, 2005 2:37:00 PM
Oh, the memories....
Somehow the song "Sons of God" made it into the songsheets of our Presbyterian Church in America youth group. I loved it, the leaders hated it. Foreshadowing? (I did however sing "eat His Body, drink His Blood," in a faux-Dracula accent.)
Did any of you sing "Pass it On"? Probably just the Evangelicals and ex-Evangelicals, but I think I still know all the words. Yes, we also sang "Joy is Like the Rain," and "Come to the Water (for Those Tears I Died)"
One thing about "They'll know we are Christians," --- I learned the lyrics as "and we'll guard each man's dignity and CRUCIFY our pride," rather than "we will guard each one's dignity and SAVE each one's pride." Does anyone know which was original?
There are so many stations around now that play classic rock; I wish there were a station that played the Christian rock of the 70s and 80s. I want to hear Keith Green, the 2nd Chapter of Acts, Larry Norman, Randy Stonehill, Steve Taylor, and all.
Okay, back to the present. The two hymns I dearly love that no one else has mentioned yet are "I Will Not Die," and "Gentle Woman," which I don't like for the words as much as I do for the musical setting of the Hail Mary which precedes it. When I want to slow myself down to a truly meditative state (and only the cat is home besides me), I actually sing a decade or two of the Rosary to that setting, and I find it very helpful.
I double-dare any music director to use the arrangement of "Salve Regina" that they used in Sister Act. I like it. Go ahead and anathematize me if you must.
I love "On Eagle's Wings" and "Be Not Afraid," but please don't sing them at my funeral. The range is too high. Sing, "I Will Not Die," instead. Yes, some of you will find that ludicrous and roll your eyes; some of you will be tempted to laugh inappropriately. And that's how I'll know you were my friends.
Oh and finally: The fastest way to pick out the ex-Evangelicals in your parish is to sing "Amazing Grace" or "How Great Thou Art." The ones who aren't looking at their hymnals at all? They're the ones you're looking for.
Posted by: Naomi at Apr 30, 2005 2:40:14 PM
Because I'm an English major copyeditor, and because it's a Schutte-done deal, "Shepherd Me O God" has always been my guilty fave. To wit: shepherd is a noun. It's at least part of Psalm 23 and I think the melody is lovely throughout, not cheesed up like "Eagles Wings" and "You Are Near." This Sunday for the Recessional the choir is going to run down to the right of the altar and, to the accompaniment of gospel piano--diddlediddlededodododododiddledidododiddlededo--we're going to sing and SWAY to "Rain Down." At least Mass will be over by then.
Posted by: Wisconsinkathy at Apr 30, 2005 2:57:06 PM
ooo! i like this thread... all the songs we hate to love and love to hate. i'm (unfortunately) particularly succeptible to things that *sound* cool, even if their texts are awful, so "Gather Us In" (even though it's awful text) doesn't bother me because its kinda fun to sing.
"Be Thou my Vision" and "The King of Love my Shepherd Is" are guilty pleasures.
I'm with Chris though - I LOVE the old gospel tune "Let Us Break Bread Together On Our Knees" - can't get my Church to use it though. They like "One Bread, One Body" and "I am the Bread of Life". (not my favourites)
Posted by: Laur at Apr 30, 2005 3:03:25 PM
My guilty pleasure is "They'll Know We Are Christians..." which is the very first 'folk Mass' song I ever heard. I also appreciate the artistry in "On Eagles' Wings."
The Haugen and Haas stuff isn't worth the trouble to line a bird-cage bottom with.
Posted by: RP Burke at Apr 30, 2005 3:05:44 PM
So far as I can tell, the Orthodox music is not susceptible to choruses and new things. I am enjoying it all.
From my Protestant days, the music that most thrilled me was a kind of civic religion weight in the Thanksgiving hymns, "We Gather Together to Ask the Lord's Blessing" and "Come Ye Thankful People Come." I do get a big lump in my throat at the courage (at least when told as American Myth) of the early English settlers looking to found a City on a Hill.
And I'm Welsh, so "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing," sung to the tune Ebenezer. The feckless "prone to wander, Lord I feel it, prone to leave the God I love" has a wonderfully Celtic feel to me.
Posted by: dilys at Apr 30, 2005 3:07:59 PM
I, too, love "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing", written by Robert Robinson (1735-1790), a convert at age 17 (just like me), then a Methodist minister, then Baptist.
He had his ups and downs of life, and this story is from years after he wrote this hymn: "One day, he encountered a woman who was studying a hymnal, and she asked how he liked the hymn she was humming. In tears, he replied, “Madam, I am the poor unhappy man who wrote that hymn many years ago, and I would give a thousand worlds, if I had them, to enjoy the feelings I had then."
Come, Thou Fount of every blessing,
Tune my heart to sing Thy grace;
Streams of mercy, never ceasing,
Call for songs of loudest praise.
Teach me some melodious sonnet,
Sung by flaming tongues above.
Praise the mount! I'm fixed upon it,
Mount of Thy redeeming love.Here I raise my Ebenezer;
Here by Thy great help I’ve come;
And I hope, by Thy good pleasure,
Safely to arrive at home.
Jesus sought me when a stranger,
Wandering from the fold of God;
He, to rescue me from danger,
Interposed His precious blood.O to grace how great a debtor
Daily I’m constrained to be!
Let Thy goodness, like a fetter,
Bind my wandering heart to Thee.
Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it,
Prone to leave the God I love;
Here’s my heart, O take and seal it,
Seal it for Thy courts above.O that day when freed from sinning,
I shall see Thy lovely face;
Clothed then in blood washed linen
How I’ll sing Thy sovereign grace;
Come, my Lord, no longer tarry,
Take my ransomed soul away;
Send thine angels now to carry
Me to realms of endless day.
A great hymn.
Posted by: Zhou De-Ming at Apr 30, 2005 3:22:41 PM
I remember the Medical Mission sisters album very well.
There was a man in Jericho called Zacheus.
There was a man in Jericho called Zacheus
Now the Hebrews They were tall
But Zacheus He was small.
But the Lord loved Zacheus better than them all.
They don't write em like that any more.
And I love Holy God We Praise Thy Name. The priest when I was in grade school had the biggest bass voice I have ever heard and he loved that hymn. I still hear him every time we sing it.
Posted by: Ellen at Apr 30, 2005 3:41:20 PM
"Pass it On"
I actually liked this song, but as Rod noted above, its associated with childhood or adolescence, in this case YMCA summer camp. In fact, a lot of the "awful" stuff is actually quite good in the right context. Many of these songs work quite well as campfire songs amongst friends and are reverent in their own way. I just don't like them in the context of the Eucharist.
But the worst "guilty pleasure" (in the "so bad it's good" category) for me has to be Mrs. Lesbia Scott's "I Sing A Song of the Saints of God" from the Episcopal hymnal.
"They lived not only in ages past,
There are hundreds of thousands still,
The world is bright with the joyous saints
Who love to do Jesus’ will.
You can meet them in school, or
In lanes, or at sea,
In church, or in trains, or in shops, or at tea, [!!!]
For the saints of God are just folk like me,
And I mean to be one too."
Posted by: Patrick Rothwell at Apr 30, 2005 3:49:33 PM
"Come to the Water (for Those Tears I Died)"
Did anyone else, when they came to the part which went "I felt every teardrop," then make a "teardrop" sound with a finger in one's mouth? We did, at least.
Posted by: Patrick Rothwell at Apr 30, 2005 3:51:59 PM
"Come Thou Fount" is specifically one of the hymns I had in mind earlier in praising the old hymns. Classic melody, and striking poetry. Even as a child I always kind of savored this:
Teach me some melodious sonnet
Sung by flaming tongues above
That's a striking and sad story about the author, Zhou.
Posted by: Maclin Horton at Apr 30, 2005 3:54:09 PM
Patrick - that's *definitely* a so-bad-its-good hymn! Are you sure that "Lesbia Scott" wasn't a pseudonym for Julia Moore, the Sweet Singer of Michigan? :)
Posted by: Sonetka at Apr 30, 2005 4:05:28 PM
It's theologically really weird, but it's kinda catching and fun: Lord of the dance.
Written by a prot, but it's beautiful: Amazing grace (some of my best friends are prot)
And why do I never get to sing Salve Regina anymore (except in private)?
Posted by: Anna at Apr 30, 2005 4:05:42 PM
Okay, I have the trump card...I like--and have played for groups of inmates on Super Bowl Sunday--"Drop Kick Me Jesus Through the Goalposts of Life."
When the state prison inmates in our program are going to be released, a group of inmates will lift them up high in the air before the crucifix while we all sing the chorus from "I am the Bread of Life" ("I will raise you up, I will raise you up, I will RAY-AYZ you up on the last day")
Not a dry eye in the house...
There are actually a large number of contemporary hymns that I like. I just wish that wasn't all the choir would sing. There actually were a few good hymns written before 1972.
Posted by: Peter Nixon at Apr 30, 2005 4:09:53 PM
It's been fun to follow this thread. No guilty pleasures for me in the modern stuff. What gives me pleasuable pause is to recollect a hymn from my teen years - Jesus My Lord, My God, My All - sung at Benediction on Sunday late afternoons with the Sodality group. Last I heard it though was on the Faith of our fathers album.
Posted by: jim sheflin at Apr 30, 2005 4:15:01 PM
At about age 10, I attended the local United Methodist Church. Bored in the pew, I began to read the preface to the hymnal. It instructed me that I should learn all the songs in the hymnal before learning any other songs. Taking this to heart, I memorized all five verses of Amazing Grace, and still take silly pride in singing it at mass without looking at the words.
www.cyberhymnal.org is wonderful for finding lyrics.
Posted by: Tisa White at Apr 30, 2005 4:31:49 PM
CMick,
RE: Shine, Jesus, Shine -- everyone who went to Steubenville secretly hates that song, even when they are smiling and raising their hands.
I would have to go in with others who cited Godspell as their guilty pleasure.
Posted by: Suzanne at Apr 30, 2005 5:04:15 PM
Actually Liam, that's perfectly doable if one has a large enough crowd packed closely in together (the Grosser Gott hymn in Germany). It's nearly impossible to find out just where it's coming from and catch the culprit(s). Finally it comes under the heading of "they can't punish us all." Yours sincerely, an ex-junior high school teacher who was careful to avoid such situations... Me.
Posted by: michigancatholic at Apr 30, 2005 5:18:30 PM
And, Julia, just to add to the May crowning hymns...recall:
"Hail, Queen of Heav'n, the Ocean Star, Guide of the wanderer here below...."
or "Queen of the Rosary, roses we bring thee...red blooms for pain untold blend with royal rose of gold....roses, roses for Maary"
I must admit too to liking very much Hosea the first time I heard it - probably too because I was having an argument with someone I cared for and he sent it to me...in fact there were a few other songs on that Monks of Weston Abby album that I liked.
Also I always enjoy the Guadalupe hymn/melody - believe it's the one too behind "Lord, When You came to the seashore"...but not certain.
And, my mother, towards the end of her life, all she craved was peace and quiet, so whenever "Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me" started up, her tears began "flowing like a river" (oh, sorry, that's another one!)
Actually probably my first introduction to all the new tunes was with Joe Wise - a local fellow way back then. So I remember "Peace I leave with you, my friend. Shalom, My peace in all you do. Peace I leave with you my friend. I give to you so you can give to others too." And...."I'm in love with my God. My God's in love with me. The more I love you, the more I know...I'm in love with my God.
Did you ever see a baby? My God has and He loves him. Loves him so much, He slept in a womb, was born as a man, learned how to walk, stumbled and fell...to help us to know how He loved. My God. And I'm in love, etc...."
And.."Gonna sing my Lord. For all that I'm worth. Gonna sing my Lord. For all that I'm worth, Lord, Lord...."
Enjoyed too the Fr. River's mass when he came to UD.
And of course the Cat Stevens rendition of "Morning Has Broken" sung in many a lapsed Catholic's wedding out in some field of daisies!
Posted by: chris K at Apr 30, 2005 5:25:12 PM
I don't know most of the songs mentioned on this thread, but I wonder what people would think of the song "You're the Lion of Judah" which is a contemporary song that is very scriptural. Here's a link to one version that's a little more Gospel-tinged than the way I'm familiar with it. Big fave at my congregation.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006DU1P/102-2557352-3489725?v=glance
Posted by: Mark Thompson-Kolar at Apr 30, 2005 5:35:56 PM
Some of the difficulty with songs such as "Gather Us In," I think, lies in their forced authenticity and seeming incongruity with the formality of a cathedral setting. I've found that during, say, college Masses, where many attenders really do struggle with questions of identity and belonging, the refrain "Gather us in, the lost and forsaken" is quite meaningful as the reminder of an existence beyond grades, popularity, or parental expectations.
In any case, despite the aesthetic wants of much of his music, I will never say a bad thing about Marty Haugen, because I like his setting of Psalm 23, with the refrain, "Shelter me, O God, beyond my wants, beyond my fears, from death into life." Before encountering this in school, I never had a concept of "beyond my wants, beyond my fears." Of course, now I can express the thought in more elegant ways (the end of "Burnt Norton," whatever), but I love the popular evocation of a grace that transcends our desires - a simple and memorable reminder that "our motive in praying is, not that we may change the Divine disposition, but that, by our prayers, we may obtain what God has appointed" (St Thomas).
And it helped rescue Psalm 23 for me from simply being a cozy and complacent sort of prayer.
Thanks.
Neil
Posted by: Neil at Apr 30, 2005 5:45:49 PM
Whoever put this online database of old hymns on here as a link, Thanks. Brings back memories of my childhood. I found my grandmother's favorite song, a waaaay non-catholic one, but she loved it and I still remember her singing it while she worked.....Bringing in the Sheaves, http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/b/r/bringing.htm
Posted by: michigancatholic at Apr 30, 2005 5:53:20 PM
The preface in the Methodist Hymnal was written by John Wesley himself; his other instructions are good too, e.g., "Be no more afraid of your voice now, no more ashamed of its being heard, than when you sung the songs of Satan."
I do like "Pass it On"; however, even in the liberal Methodist church that I went too, it was considered a bit much and rarely done.
A Methodist hymn that I would like to hear again is "Come, O Thou Traveler Unknown" by Charles Wesley about Jacob's wrestling with the Stranger and put to an old Scots melody.
Posted by: sj at Apr 30, 2005 5:55:31 PM
What, no fans of that "Troubador for the Lord", John Michael Talbot - "come to the quiet" selections? No Talbot rendition of the Magnificat?
Posted by: chris K at Apr 30, 2005 6:03:19 PM
Heard one, heard em all, Chris.
Posted by: michigancatholic at Apr 30, 2005 6:06:34 PM
Oh, that Jacob song reminds me fondly of "As Jacob With Travel With Weary One Day" in the second edition of the Worship hymnal, to a great tune.
The last verse:
And when we arrive at that haven of rest,
we shall hear the glad words, "Come up hither, you blest!
Here are regions of light, here are mansions of bliss!"
O, who would not climb such a ladder as this!
The refrain:
Alleluia to Jesus Who died on the Tree,
and has raised up a ladder of mercy for me, and has raised up a ladder of mercy for me.
(I liked to program that for the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross.)
Posted by: Liam at Apr 30, 2005 6:18:38 PM
Yes, Mich, I tend to agree. I just thought I'd invite a rebuke - in need of some old fashioned lashings! Ah...much better now.
Well, then,...how 'bout the Gaithers!!!
Posted by: chris K at Apr 30, 2005 6:24:30 PM
+J.M.J+
>>>Did any of you sing "Pass it On"? Probably just the Evangelicals and ex-Evangelicals, but I think I still know all the words.
Ahhh, "Pass It On". Yep, I remember that one fondly from my Evangelical daze. Arguably the quintessential Bible camp bonfire song.
If I may say something nice about Marty Haugen, He wrote an exceptional Advent hymn, "Awake! Awake! and Greet the New Morn." I don't like most of his stuff, but I like that one.
I like JMT, but I never hear his arrangements sung in Church.
In Jesu et Maria,
Posted by: Rosemarie at Apr 30, 2005 6:27:20 PM
So bad it's good ....
by Erich Sylvester
I am a man without envy
No roof and no walls to defend me
In hopes that one day you'll befriend me
And take all my troubles away
Walk with me, talk with me
Tell me about all the good things you've done
Stay with me, pray with me
Leave all your blues in your shoes at the door
Posted by: Paul Pfaffenberger at Apr 30, 2005 6:49:04 PM
I can't stand "Amazing Grace". But I had fun singing it to the tune of "House of the Rising Sun" once
Posted by: Dunstan at Apr 30, 2005 6:51:28 PM
Dunstan
Sing it to the tune of Joy To The World. Or to the theme to Gilligan's Island.... In either case, repeat phrases as needed.
Posted by: Liam at Apr 30, 2005 6:53:02 PM
Oh, gosh, Godspell for me too. I always loved singing along with it, with appropriate
gestures.
I like Lord of the Dance for the same reasons I like Godspell. They're catchy if simple-minded.
Posted by: Therese Z at Apr 30, 2005 6:59:15 PM
Fr. Jim, Ellen - Thank you for the reminder. Songs by the Medical Mission Sisters would definitely qualify as a guilty pleasure for me. This is the one I remember, sort of:
It's a long road to freedom
a-winding steep and high;
but when you walk in love
with the wind on your wings,
And cover the earth
with the songs you sing,
the miles fly by.
Ah, the harmonies were wonderful.
Posted by: Cathy M at Apr 30, 2005 8:08:30 PM
Since no one took the bait the other day and I am apparently the only soul here who remembers fifty years on, I'm going to inflict "an Army of Youth" on you. They don't write them like this any more.
An army of youth
Flying the banners of truth
As dauntlessly on we swing,
Comrades true dare and do
'neath the Queen's white and blue,
For our flag for our faith for Christ the King!
Christ lifts His hands
The King commands,
His message: "Come and follow Me."
From every side
with eager stride
We join in the ranks of victory.
Though foemen lurk
And laggards shirk,
We throw our fortunes with the Lord,
Mary's Son,
'Til the world be won,
We have pledged Him our loyal word.
Posted by: Sandra Miesel at Apr 30, 2005 8:17:31 PM
From early in my Catholicism, St. Mary's in Annapolis, Maryland, we sang Immaculate Mary,and Salve Regina a lot. This was a self conscious pleasure for me. I took pleasure at really being a Catholic but at the same time had trouble shaking the feeling of being like an anthropologist in a strange culture, an am I really here doing this? feeling. But later, in a Glory and Praise parish, the very rare times we would sing these, on a Marian feast, would bring back to me hints of the fervor of new conversion, and of the atmosphere of holiness I felt at St. Mary's.
Guilty pleasures--I don't know Lord of the Dance. But most of the rest of the songs people mentioned I have some liking for...And the mountains will fall, and the hills turn to dust.. and the other one about mountains..Sing to the mountains, sing to the sea. And "I will never forget you, my people, I will hold you in the palm of my hand" really moves me.
One not mentioned is the one sung during the foot washing "The Lord Jesus, after eating with his friends, washed their feet and then he said to them...Do you know what I your Lord have done for you? I really like this-it is part of Holy Thursday for me. However, for the procession to the side altar with the Blessed Sacrament, they had just better sing the St Thomas Aquinas song..in English it starts "Dining with his twelve apostles, on the night before he died" It is better in Latin, of course. That is an unguilty pleasure...except that I feel a bit guilty about the fuss I made the year they tried to substitute "W