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May 03, 2005
Pagan Predators
From a Wicca site - almost a parody to the outside eye, but of course, not, and tragically so, because we're talking about real victims of sexual abuse. The piece was interesting to me because of the honesty with which the writer was able to look at her group:
In these religions, where we espouse an attitude of ‘many paths, no one true way’ it is too easy for a predator to excuse himself and his harmful actions as his path and therefore no less valid than another’s. Who am I to say that how another person finds God/dess is wrong? I personally am uncomfortable with the idea of sharing and building energy through group sexual arousal, but I know of one group that does so and their leader is an amazing woman I learn from constantly; she is no predator. Pagans pride themselves on their tolerance and open minds, which is generally good, but we need to moderate these attitudes. A friend recently told me that when she makes a statement against some harmful activity promoted by other Pagans, she adds, "I keep my mind open, but not so open that my brain falls out on the floor and goes splat! The Goddess gave me a mind to do something other than keep my ears widely set - She intended for me to use it to think and to make judgments on what is good and bad, right and wrong. If that were not the case, She wouldn’t have given me a conscience!”
....In a religion where secrets are expected, where a lot of training is one-on-one, happening behind closed doors and frequently oath-bound, it is easy for a predator to convince a victim that what is happening is part of the Tradition, or oath-bound, or required to truly understand the Mysteries. Not all uncomfortable or secret practices are warning signs of a predator. (A good teacher, for example will work with a student to identify and work through negative issues. That cycle of identification and work will frequently make the student uncomfortable, but the result is a healthier human.)
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
Comments
What is surprising to most people is to find out there are large Wiccan groups in their own neighborhoods. One of the largest covens in the midwest is here in St. Louis in a wonderful neighborhood of otherwise average families--albeit a bit on the liberal side. The high school I worked at (Catholic) had its work cut out when several of the girls evangelized for Wicca in the school. They wanted their "fair share of time" in a religion course on "World Religions." That wasn't going to happen, so things got uglier. The sexual aspects with regard to teens is threatening largely because their hormones disallow them to understand what is really happening. The young are easy prey. And who is most susceptible to the "no rules here" environment--teens. A very attractive temptation!
Posted by: deb at May 3, 2005 8:24:15 AM
I am currently working on a project in metro-Atlanta to attack child sexual exploitation. My partner in this venture is a senior staffer at the City who is a mega-feminist and former Wiccan. We don't agree on much aside from the fact that child sexual exploitation is unacceptable, but we get along well nonetheless.
Posted by: Mike Petrik at May 3, 2005 8:59:01 AM
Mike- congratulations and prayers to you and your partner for success in this worthy project. Meanwhile.....
Wicca: The Ultimate Religion For People Who Don't Like Religious Regulations. Better than
Buddhism- understands that people still like a little theater with their theology. Can become anything I make it to be because who are you to mess with my truth. Then a really strong personality tends to emerge with the message of I have the strongest truth. Then that strongest truth becomes the only truth. Thus we call the ultimate products- cults.
Posted by: Gerard E. at May 3, 2005 9:04:38 AM
Thanks, Gerard. We are in the early stages of our initiative having just commissioned Emory University to perform a "mapping study." I am proud to say that in one hour of door to door solictations I was able to raise over $20,000 from my law partners to fund this study, and the local United Way will match this amount. People do care.
Posted by: Mike Petrik at May 3, 2005 9:24:13 AM
This reversion to paganism is very troubling. But people can't exist without some kind of system of belief. When Christianity is thrown out, these cults come in and do a lot of damage. The antidote is evangelization.
Posted by: Sr Lorraine at May 3, 2005 9:50:25 AM
We had a few Wiccans in Ontario Students for Life when I was a teenager. Disaffected Catholic kids who still loved ritual but didn't like the whole 'church' thing. But they were good pro-life advocates and great people, if a little defensive and sensitive about being a religious minority in the group.
Posted by: Kate at May 3, 2005 11:02:23 AM
Kate:
That squares with the Wiccans I know (all two of them)--very strongly pro-life. They aren't ex-Catholics, though.
Posted by: Dale Price at May 3, 2005 11:08:48 AM
And, as a general rule, the "do what thou wilt, if it hurts no one" thing does tend to attract the hormonally-minded, to be sure.
But there's a major misconception about what it really means for moral/ethical behavior. Maybe the Wiccans I know aren't typical, but for them it means if your action could cause psychological harm to another, then it's forbidden. I've read it from another source, too (a sci-fi book by research-maven Steve Stirling), so it isn't unique. It's actually supposed to be a fairly rigorous guide to conduct, if adhered to properly.
But our Wiccan friends admit it attracts a lot of people looking to score. Much disappointment follows.
Posted by: Dale Price at May 3, 2005 11:15:29 AM
Didn't Chesterton say something about not having a mind so open that your brains fall out?
I suppose it's an older quote than that even. It's a very true saying.
Posted by: Brian at May 3, 2005 11:19:38 AM
"If only Wiccan priests could marry. If only Wicca would allow priestesses. If only Wicca could be less uptight about 'pelvic issues.' Then this kind of thing would never happen."
Oh, wait, nevermind ...
Posted by: Zach Frey at May 3, 2005 12:10:36 PM
If only Wiccan priests could marry...
Now thats funny ;)
As for the no harm rule. Just ask any pederast. They never hurt anybody, they just teach children how to love.
Posted by: Martin at May 3, 2005 12:21:37 PM
Wiccans: white witchcraft.
I've never met a Wiccan who wasn't a lesbian.
Posted by: Newton at May 4, 2005 2:18:35 AM
I have.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at May 4, 2005 6:18:48 AM
Great picture from Fr. Ethan's blog.
Oh, my bad. They're Episcopalean, not Wiccan!
Posted by: Zhou De-Ming at May 4, 2005 10:16:29 AM
(try that again, with correct link!)
Great picture from Fr. Ethan's blog.
Oh, my bad. They're Episcopalean, not Wiccan!
Posted by: Zhou De-Ming at May 4, 2005 10:18:36 AM
Zhou,
It's becoming harder and harder to tell the difference.
peace,
Posted by: Zach Frey at May 4, 2005 11:03:44 AM
Newton:
I have, too. Near as I can tell, most of the females and all of the males.
Posted by: Dale Price at May 4, 2005 11:10:23 AM
Amy,
It's odd that you did not hyperlink that post; the omission is glaring. Why not?
Chas Clifton (your neighbor in Blog Heaven)
Posted by: Chas S. Clifton at May 5, 2005 11:40:44 AM
Wiccans: white witchcraft.
I've never met a Wiccan who wasn't a lesbian.
Posted by: Newton at May 4, 2005 02:18 AM
***************
Well guess what? I'm not a lesbian. For that fact I know more Wiccans who aren't lesbians than are. Sounds to me like you need to stop making such generalized statements. That would be like me saying all Christians are ignorant. They aren't and I have many Christian friends. As for child predators, please don't forget they are found in every religion. For that fact it has nothing to do with their religion. It has to do with mental illness. I'm all for stopping child predators regardless of their religion. there are numerous Wiccans out there exposing child predators who are trying to use our religion as a playground for their own sexual problems or control issues.
To the no rules, there are rules in Wicca. The problems start when we have people who want to come "play" in our religion. Yep, it's play for them, they aren't serious about any religion they been associated with. There are many people who join Wicca because they do believe it's going to be about sex. To say they are disappointed is to put it mildly. You know why they believe it's about sex? Because of the misinformation that is passed on by other religions. Whether this misinformation is passed on in order to make Wicca look bad I can't say.
So not all of us Wiccans are homosexual, nor are we child predators. So please don't spread misinformation.
Posted by: Georgia at May 9, 2005 10:04:35 AM
"An it harm none, do as ye will," is a very complex rule, though at a first glance you might think otherwise. It should make you think about every action and the effect it has on others, on the environment, on animals, and last but not least on yourself - since none does include oneself. Even the simplest of actions thus become difficult decisions. It suddenly makes things more complicated doesn't it?
Further more, we are not all lesbians or homosexuals (yes there are male witches too), however sexual orientation isn't an issue when you speak of child molestors since sexual abuse really isn't about sexuality - it is mostly a control issue. Child molestors are found in any religion, take a good look at the Catholic church for example, and in my humble opinion they should be hunted down and locked away for life. Chemical castration seemed like a good idea, but since it's mostly about power and control it wouldn't solve the problem.
In short, don't come pissing on my parade if you can't handle the problems in your own backyard.
PS I'm not a lesbian, but I *am* a Wiccan.
Posted by: Branny at May 9, 2005 10:32:11 AM
Now for the quote that was used in the original post here, it can be found
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=words&id=9181
With it not taken out of context you can see where the woman was going with this. Also you'll notice that the author of the article the quote was taken from stated that it was copyrighted. Copyright: May be freely distributed as long as author name and contact information is included.
Posted by: Georgia at May 9, 2005 10:58:29 AM
What strikes me as sad beyond words here is that there is such an inability to believe that others would have beliefs that differ - that a spiritual Truth could have different translations. Believe what you will but understand that others have their beliefs, their traditions - you don't have to be a lesbian or homosexual to be Pagan, I'm not, but what you do need is intellect, an open mind and the ability to see past the hate-filled rhetoric of those who fear what they do not understand.
Just because you don't believe in Wicca and/or Paganism doesn't mean it's not someone else's Truth.
Jesus spoke of acceptance, forgiveness, and he was accepting of others regardless of their belief or state of sin - I think you'll find that most Pagans and Wiccans respect and love Jesus, it's his followers so many of us take issue with.
Posted by: Cerr at May 9, 2005 6:44:16 PM
Hi Amy, et al
As the author of the article you excerpted, I'm wondering what your point was?
That I was able to honestly look at my religious community and discuss its flaws? Thank you for the compliment.
That sexual/economic/social predators exist within the Pagan community? Yes, as they do in every single religious community.
That certain aspects of the Pagan religion can be exploited by said predators? Yes, to the majority's shame and disgust.
I'm not taking potshots at you, but if you were taking them at me (or my religious community, through my words), I'd appreciate a clarfication so I can see the boundaries of our (potential) dicussion.
Oh, and as a clarification: Witchvox is not a 'Wicca site,' but a NeoPagan site (as an analogy, they are not a Presbyterian site, but a Christian site).
Posted by: Lisa Mc Sherry at May 9, 2005 7:20:30 PM
There are some Wiccan’s who do carry on in an unscrupulous manner. They might try to prey on an unsuspecting newcomer to the Wiccan religion. But you can’t condemn the entire Wiccan community because of the acts of a few. If you do, then you have to condemn the whole Catholic community because of the acts of some priests who prey on young innocent boys, forcing them into sexual acts. These boys are stained for life. I know a lot about it because it happened to a good friend of mine. He was forced into a sex act with the pastor of his church when he was nine years old. When he came forward and told what had happened, it was swept under the rug and covered up. The priest got transferred to another church where he was still allowed to perform his duties as a man of god. What a colossal joke.
I’m proud to be a Wiccan. I belong to the most wonderful coven in the world. There is nothing sexual in any of our rites. We honor the Goddess and God, we care about each other, we’re there for each other, we honor the Earth, and we try our best to honor the Rede. For those of you who have never heard of the Rede, it ends in this: ‘An ye harm none, do what ye will.’ Maybe some of the Christian religions should think about that.
Posted by: Scorpion at May 9, 2005 8:33:43 PM
Because, as we know, there are no sexual predators in the Catholic community...
The other commenters are right on the money. There are black sheep on every flock.
Posted by: Kensho Godchaser at May 10, 2005 1:51:40 PM
Er, IN every flock, that is.
Posted by: Kensho Godchaser at May 10, 2005 1:52:35 PM
I always wonder what makes people SO sure their way is the ONLY way, that another translation of the Truth couldn't be a possibility. What I'd like to know, and it seems this is the right place to ask: How do you know?
Because the Bible told you? Do you have any idea who wrote the bible? Or that there are other Gospels that were also written but not included because it didn't fit in with what this "new" belief system was evolving into? Why bash down Paganism when Christianity took Pagan holidays and made them their own ie: the birth of Jesus curiously co-incides with the birth of Mithras whose life parallels Jesus's in MANY ways, and yet he's a sun God, where Jesus was the Son of God.....curious, isn't it? How about all those other festivals of the harvest such as Ostara which celebrates rebirth - shock of shocks, the Christian version? Easter.
What if *gasp* they're all the same?! What if Christianity is really based in Pagan beliefs?! Did you know Pagan meant country dweller at one time? Indeed Neo-Pagans tend to be very respectful of nature, country or city dwellers, we follow a tradition of respect for ourselves, others and the Earth and Elements.
Sexual predators are everywhere. Look at what's happened in Florida and now Texas with young girls being kidnapped and raped and murdered or beaten and stabbed. Predators are everywhere. What people like you who blame everything on the Pagans (see Pat Robertson after 9/11 blaming the day on Pagans) are doing is spreading hate and mistrust where it doesn't need to exist - when love, acceptance and working TOGETHER would be a far more useful way of finding and dealing with sexual predators no matter where they pop up - be it a street corner, an internet website, a confession room or behind the altar.
Good luck on finding some compassion within yourself and openning your mind and heart.....someday you'll need the compassion for yourself, and you WILL get back what you give.
Posted by: cerr at May 10, 2005 6:24:11 PM
Whew....
Ok, Wiccan friends, cool it. Stop reacting long enough to think, ok? You are hardly representing yourselves well by condemning Amy and the readers of her blog without first a fair hearing.
If you bothered to read anything else Amy has written on the subject, you'd know that she has gone to bat for victims of abuse within and without the Catholic church. So
long time readers of Amy's blog understand that the reason she posts stuff like this is not to claim that any particular group is accepting or prone to abuse, but to point out instead how this stuff can be rampant anywhere.
And notice that none of the commenter's remarks about Wiccans they had known were negative.
So calm down. Or some of your negative energy is gonna come back and getcha threefold!
Posted by: Kate at May 17, 2005 1:23:00 PM
