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November 23, 2005

Document, Redux

How many people were driving their children to preschool this morning, wishing they didn't have to come home and face writing about a Vatican document on homosexuality? Well, here's one.

But write I will.

This issue, as discussed in the media and in cyberspace, is another example of a Tower of Babel - like the ID discussion. People are talking in different languages, and are often not honest about it.

Here's the bottom line for me, and why I wrote, weeks ago, that the "who you are" question in regard to vocation discernment and this issue is secondary to "what you believe and what you will vigorously and enthusiastically teach."

Already, the discussion has taken a sharp turn into Self-Pity and Oppression land. The self-identified "gay priests" have been trotted out, the sensitive have started mourning for their demeaned brothers who might be swept up in the "deep homosexual inclinations" net. And this is a reaction that was thoroughly predictable.

This is why I have never been an enthusiast for the simple view of "don't let homosexuals be ordained" idea. Well, one of the reasons, the other being that in two thousand years of church history there have been men who have homosexual tendencies or SSA, or what ever you would call it, who have been ordained, have not caused any trouble, and have, like anyone else, aspired to holiness. We've had this discussion before.

But the other reason is simply that when it comes to guidelines, as reasonable as it might seem to do the "no homosexuals in the seminary thing," it doesn't get at the problem. The problem is not, in simple terms, the homosexual priest. The problem is priests who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches on sexuality, who don't preach it, who don't witness to it in the confessional, and who don't live it in their private lives.

Do you see the difference?

Now, even that net will have some holes, as we have seen a few times, as the extravagently "orthodox" priest - usually young - is caught with child porn, or in the park, or in flagrante somehow or other. Which is why the seminaries have to tend to the personal formation, the psychological and emotional makeup of the candidate. When I wrote that NY Times op-ed, the editor questioned the used of the word "formation." I explained that "education" would not get at it, because that's not what seminary is - it's formation of the whole person, since priesthood is not just an intellectual stance, it's the gift of one's whole life to God and His people. So, no, I'm not saying that evaluating candidates just on the level of what they say they believe and will teach is enough. But do you know what? It's necessary, and if vigorously adhered to, would solve a raft of problems, even those beyond the homosexual issue.

I've already heard lots of little snide remarks and questions about the "gay culture" aspect of the document. Well, this is an attempt to get at what I'm talking about, and to me, the whole thing would be far simpler if the document simply emphasized that a candidate for priesthood is indicating his sense that he is being called to minister to God's people as a Catholic priest. Brilliant. Which means that when it comes to this foundational revelation of what the creation of man and woman as man and woman implies, symbolizes and concretizes - they are on board. Completely. And they will embrace what the Church teaches, will teach it themselves, and will commit to helping, with compassion and understanding, Catholics live this out themselves. Again, brilliant.

People can lie. People do lie. People can decieve themselves, even, and pull the wool over others' eyes, as well. I have never understood the appeal of the Catholic priesthood for the actively gay man who doesn't give a flip about Church teaching on this score. If you want to serve others, go into social work or psychology or something. But if you don't believe it, and don't live it...why are you here? Why do you thrive, it seems, on secrecy and subversion? Don't you want to live a life of integrity?

And this is what I would say to anyone who is a position of authority within the Church, takes money from the Church, depends on the Church for his or livelihood and authority, but who doesn't believe what the Church teaches on these fundamentals. Why are you doing this? This is not the same as being a struggling believer on a journey, attending Mass, perhaps refraining from receiving Communion because of your questions, hesitancy and problems with what the Church teaches, but still attached, still drawn, still convinced that this is home. No, my puzzlement is with leaders and teachers, lay and ordained, who have, not just a few private doubts here and there, but who have public contempt for most of the historical and traditional theological enterprise that is the Roman Catholic Church. Why are you doing this?

But that's a bigger question. My point is that I'm pretty uninterested in the whole "deep seated homosexual inclinations" thing, because that's not what I see. What interests and concerns me is what you believe, what you teach, and how you live. They can be and often are related. But it strikes me that if formators, other priests and bishops tended closely to the other three, and exerted a healthy dose of bold fraternal correction, the self-selection out of the system, not just of unsuitable homosexual candidates, but unsuitable candidates period would be more frequent.

Oh, and word to the self-identified "gay priests" who are all over NPR today. To right off the bat self-identify as "gay" is to indicate, pretty clearly, that something else other than Christ is at the center of your life. If your priest got up in the pulpit and proclaimed "I am a heterosexual priest," wouldn't you go, uh...okay. Wouldn't it indicate to you that something besides devotion to Christ and His Church was the lodestar, the guiding and motivating force in that guy's life? This is not about denying and repressing our sexual natures, blah, blah, blah. Here's what celibacy is supposed to be: it's supposed to be a life of eschatological witness, an extreme sign of what, in the end, we are called to be, and will be in the fullness of the Kingdom: for God alone. To make the sex of one's preferred sexual partner, even if one is chaste, an integral part of one's identity as a priest dilutes, to say the least, this witness. It is not a simple line, for indeed, the drive to procreate, to create, to relate does impact one's role as a priest, because it was drives us, period, as human beings. But there is a line, a way to live and distinguish between unhealthy repression or a lack of recognition of the role that the human drive to procreativity (word?) must play even in the life of a celibate, and this centering of one's identity on one's sexual proclivities. It's odd, and, quite frankly, I don't think it's what healthy people do, and further, it's not consistent with the authentic, ideal witness of the celibate.

Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink

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» Cutting to the Root from All The Fulness
Sometimes what are made out to be quite complex problems are actually quite simple if one sees to the root of them. The problem of homosexuals in the clergy is one such. Amy Welborn has an outstanding post on this [Read More]

Tracked on Nov 23, 2005 4:23:54 PM

» Mandatory post on "the document" from The Curt Jester
Amazingly I have actually not commented on the new document from the Congregation for Catholic Education concerning seminary admissions up... [Read More]

Tracked on Nov 23, 2005 9:05:39 PM

» Mandatory post on "the document" from The Curt Jester
Amazingly I have actually not commented on the new document from the Congregation for Catholic Education concerning seminary admissions up until today. Nor have I blogged on all the rumors of what the document first said one day and then another. I was... [Read More]

Tracked on Nov 23, 2005 9:08:22 PM

» Vatican document on gay priests from Noli Irritare Leones
Well, it finally got leaked, a couple of days ago. Between Thanksgiving and a mysterious slowdown in our Internet connection for a couple of days, Im only just now able to see all the stories about it. I dont have any time to comment. ... [Read More]

Tracked on Nov 25, 2005 12:01:46 PM

Comments

Should we ordain ANY person whose underdeveloped emotional life or emotional woundedness is a stumbling block or a crutch that hinders their ability or desire to focus on Christ and on the care of the flock?

Posted by: Julie at Nov 23, 2005 9:36:44 AM

No, of course we shouldn't.

Posted by: Amy at Nov 23, 2005 9:41:13 AM

Thank you Amy for one of the more sane and measured things I've read on this topic in a long time. You get to the core of the issue that a lot of the rhetoric misses: faithfulness.

I think the fact that only a small percentage of seminarians these days could adequately be described as "liberal" or even left of center is witness that many men who are becoming priests these days--including myself--would agree with you.

I would hesitate to say that someone who identifies himself as homosexual is necessarily giving that priority over his relationship with Christ. That, for the most part, has not been my experience and, where it has been, those guys usually have left.

We could use a document which says what you are saying!

And BTW, in religious circles these days the word commonly used for "procreativity" is "generativity". :)

Thanks again.

Mark

Posted by: Mark Mossa, SJ at Nov 23, 2005 9:54:52 AM

Amen, Amy. Amen.

Posted by: Socius at Nov 23, 2005 9:54:55 AM

Bravo Amy!
You have quoted from my dear compatriot of blessed memory on your blog before - but my favorite quote of Elizabeth Anscombe is "..but the quarrel is far greater between Christianity and the present-day heathen, post Christian, morality that has sprung up as a result of contraception. In one word: Christianity taught that men ought to be as chaste as pagans thought honest women ought to be; the contraceptive morality teaches that women need to be as little chaste as pagans thought men need be." (the pagans she speaks of are of course those same ones St. Paul spoke of in his epistles - ephebophilia was 'de riguer' in polite society of Athens and Rome)

P.S. I couldn't find the document at the link I had saved (Prof Soble at University of New Orleans, need I say more? pray for them) but googled and found this copy of her 1977 essay at an Orthodox site http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/AnscombeChastity.shtml

Her philosophy if I may imperfectly paraphrase it is this:
homosexual acts are grave sins, but not as grave as contraceptive heterosexual acts, since from natural law the former are not fecund, while the latter could be if the parties willed it. When married couples contracept their intent is a greater moral evil - they thwart God's will while persons with same sex attractions have a disordered wish to emulate God's will by marriage, adoption, etc. They are culpable of intending wishful thinking, while contraceptive acts are a willful rejection of divine providence).

God Bless
We need priests who recognize this fact, and are willing to suffer to defend it by preaching it from the pulpit. IMHO the focus on same-sex issues is a comforting distraction in Christian public life - since we'd be really uncomfortable focusing on our own sins - for they are graver still.

God Bless

Posted by: Clare Krishan at Nov 23, 2005 9:55:20 AM

Pretty solid take on the thing, Amy. Can't find anything with which I would disagree. Here's to hoping this get implemented appropriately.

Posted by: c matt at Nov 23, 2005 9:55:20 AM

Amen, Amy. Amen.

Posted by: Socius at Nov 23, 2005 9:55:36 AM

Amy: Oh, and word to the self-identified "gay priests" who are all over NPR today. To right off the bat self-identify as "gay" is to indicate, pretty clearly, that something else other than Christ is at the center of your life. If your priest got up in the pulpit and proclaimed "I am a heterosexual priest," wouldn't you go, uh...okay. Wouldn't it indicate to you that something besides devotion to Christ and His Church was the lodestar, the guiding and motivating force in that guy's life? This is not about denying and repressing our sexual natures, blah, blah, blah. Here's what celibacy is supposed to be: it's supposed to be a life of eschatological witness, an extreme sign of what, in the end, we are called to be, and will be in the fullness of the Kingdom: for God alone. To make the sex of one's preferred sexual partner, even if one is chaste, an integral part of one's identity as a priest dilutes, to say the least, this witness.

Spot on!!

Posted by: Donie at Nov 23, 2005 9:58:29 AM

Amy,

I wish YOU had written this Vatican document.

Posted by: Charming Billy at Nov 23, 2005 9:59:08 AM

Amy, this is a powerful post and you are right about the central issue. Without facing the questions of faithfulness and formation, the problem will never be solved.

But, please, may I suggest that maybe, just maybe, this is an area where the Church has something to tell you that you are reluctant to hear? Maybe there is something WISE in the attitude that prevents the Church from saying that there is an equivalence between chaste heterosexuals and chaste homosexuals? To say, "I don't care," means, I think, "I don't want to hear it; I've already made up my mind." Perhaps there is a connection between the deep inclination and some of the behaviors which you note such that, while the inclination itself is not per se sinful, it is still inadvisable to treat it as utterly benign?

I also wonder if the people in the past whom you diagnose with "SSA" were really so. My wife often remarks that it seems to her that some people in the past never developed cravings and tendencies that they MIGHT have come to fruition in a modern social context. I don't know that it's fair to count them as having "SSA" or as being homosexuals. Which holy figures from the past actually had characteristic temptations toward men, as opposed to being caught up in general depravity? I can't think of any myself that don't involve disputable speculation.

Posted by: Jeff at Nov 23, 2005 10:04:15 AM

Fr. Neuhaus has summed up the issue neatly: Fidelity. Fidelity. Fidelity.

Put another way, whether we're discussing SSA priests or contraception, Catholics should:

1) Know the Gospel and teachings of sacred Scripture and sacred Tradition--all perfectly in accord

2) Place our faith in those teachings

3) Live consistently with them

4) Seek reconciliation when we fall short (i.e., sin)

It's little shock that in our post-modern, eros-addled American culture, that we are failing pretty much across the board, particularly 2,3,4.

Posted by: vox climantis at Nov 23, 2005 10:09:01 AM

Amen! Amen! Hallelujah!
Preach it, Amy!

In regard to the "why?" question, I think a first answer is that traditionally, although perhaps not so much in the future, holding a position of clergy in the Roman Catholic Church (priest or bishop, not permanent deacon) was a ticket to social status and power that, frankly, just doesn't come with being a social worker or psychologist. Everybody loves a priest, especially "their" priest. Priests and bishops get invited to lots of parties and social functionsp; people give them presents; police are hesitant to cite or arrest them; they frequently get housing and a cook and a car. You don't get these perks as a social worker or psychologist.

Remember the big wave of building and growing that took place in the Catholic church in the US after the Second World War, staffed, before Vatican II, by an endless army of young sisters and young priests.
Is it that hard to understand why, after the Council that bishops concerned about staffing levels for this growing enterprise welcomed (almost) anyone who seemed interested in joining the staff, especially those who would not rock the boat of the "Spirit of Vatican II" (i.e., don't have strong opinions on matters of doctrine or orthodoxy, inclined rather to social justice work and community building)?

It is easy to see both "why" and "how," and also who is responsible (the US Bishops in place during and since the Vatican II Council).

My own silly opinion is that we really do need a smaller Church; not smaller in terms of people, but definitely smaller in terms of (1) buildings; (2) schools; (3) real estate; (4) organizations; (5) committess; (6) teams; (7) conferences; (8) administrative offices. We need less "machinery," less infrastructure. This will require less staff, and give an opportunity to "raise the bar" a bit. And maybe we can even focus on our faith, living it, learning it, and teaching it.

Posted by: Old Zhou at Nov 23, 2005 10:18:36 AM

Amy said: "The problem is priests who don't believe what the Catholic Church teaches on sexuality, who don't preach it, who don't witness to it in the confessional, and who don't live it in their private lives."

I think the problem is a bit more difficult than that, Amy. From reading responses just on this blog alone, I find that many, if not most, people either do not really know what the Church teaches, or interprets it in their own way. And not just about sexuality. Perhpas the most stunning case is that of the Novus Ordo. The Church teaches that this is the proper way to perform the sacrifice of the mass. No question about it, the official Church has spoken, the last several popes have spoken, the teaching is clear! But it seems a large percentage of your readers are waiting for the Church to change its mind, to go back to the "true" mass.

So it seems with homosexuality, with female ordination, with celebacy, with ... You get the picture. We really are a Church of Caffeteria Catholics and it doesn't matter whether you look at the liberal end, or the conservative end. And if doesn't seem to matter whether you look at the laity or hiearchy, you find the same phenomena.

Nor is it just in America. We have cardinals saying you can use condoms to prevent HIV infection (in married couples) and cardinals saying no you can't. Now for a storm of comments, which is the real Church teaching? Or maybe both or just individual beliefs that are not binding?

The Church teaches that priests must be celebate, or does it? There are over 100 married priests that are active in their ministries here in the United States, I believe all of them converts from other faiths - with the approval of the pope. What is the teaching of the popes? Uh, don't answer that, someone whould say you are wrong :).

One thing that I think you are right on the mark with is that we speak in different languages that use the same words. I was a research physicist, and there is a scientific language in which words have very specific meanings. I also studied some phillosophy and find that discipline has words with very specific meanings (many defined in Latin) and they don't mean exactly the same thing. For example, I believe strongly in the "physical" presence of Christ in the Eucharist, He really is there, but not physically as the physicist knows the word. Worse, I can't really explain to you the difference. Perhaps the closest I can come it "I believe, Lord, help me in my unbelief."

May we all find the peace of Christ and love for our fellow men.

Posted by: Mike L at Nov 23, 2005 10:18:57 AM

God bless you Amy, for being you, for being clear and for getting it - spot on - bravissima!

Posted by: Tim Ferguson at Nov 23, 2005 10:22:21 AM

Old Zhou, there is something irritating about you, namely you come up with the same thoughts I do but express them much more clearly than I can! Except of course when I disagree with you, which is becoming less and less.

God bless!

Posted by: Mike L at Nov 23, 2005 10:27:09 AM

How did I guess that the Novus Ordo vs. Tridentine issue would rear its ugly head in this context?

Posted by: Patrick Rothwell at Nov 23, 2005 10:29:32 AM

Well done, Amy.

I think the appeal of the nugget of truth you identified -- that's it about formation and the identity which follows it -- cuts nicely across ideological lines.

Everyone comes to this discussion freighted with personal experiences. Many of us have never -- and I do mean never -- heard a person in a position of authority in our parishes or dioceses indicate that they take the Church's teaching on sexuality seriously. Instead we're fed glib secular pieties, examples of which generally fill your comment boxes.

Given how sex-saturated our culture is, can a person really be formed as a Catholic without embracing what the Church teaches about this subject?

You effectively answered that question.

Posted by: Rich Leonardi at Nov 23, 2005 10:44:51 AM

Re: physics and the Eucharist

What you mean is that the scientific "physical" aspect of the Eucharist is that of the measurable, tangible accidents of the Host.

Posted by: Maureen at Nov 23, 2005 10:51:46 AM

Thanks Amy. This is an excellent post.

Posted by: Stephen at Nov 23, 2005 10:56:38 AM

Amy - Your piece was great until the end, when you had to add your "Oh, and one more thing" comment.

You wrote: "Oh, and word to the self-identified 'gay priests' who are all over NPR today. To right off the bat self-identify as 'gay' is to indicate, pretty clearly, that something else other than Christ is at the center of your life."

I would take issue with your interpretation here and consider it a bit unfair. I would imagine that in many (not all) cases of priests "self-identifying" as gay does not inticate that something else other than Christ is at the center of his life. It is a reaction to the Church itself forcing this aspect of a person's identity to be at the center of their life. These priests are REACTING to an officially-Church-driven focus on one aspect of who they are. It would be like the Catholic Church coming out with a statement on why a priest's infertility should have disqualified him from becoming a priest, and then chastising a priest from addressing this document by indicating that he has something to say about this because he IS infertile.

The assault (if you want to call it that) is on a hidden aspect of immutable, God-created identity that the Church, itself, wants exposed. And your example about the "hetero" priest pronouncing his sexual orientation is typical of the whole "keep it in your bedroom" attitude which is so disingenous, too. When I walk around the park with my arm around my wife and my two daughters walking next to us, I am proclaiming by that very fact my heterosexuality.

The fact is that our whole culture is predicated upon hiding homosexuality, especially within the Catholic Church. And, then, when the Church itself shines light specifically on this issue, your first inclination is to think that when a priest shines the light on his own homosexuality he must somehow be guilty of making something other than Christ the center of his life. From where I sit, for a gay Catholic priest to identify what he believes is a created, immutable aspect of his being, made in the image of Christ, IS keeping his devotion to Christ and His Church who sees fit to proclaim on homosexuality the center of things.

Again, great post up until that point. Which is a shame, because it leaves me with a feeling that what preceded was all a bunch of perfectly-phrased hooey deflated by the unintentional, but truth-revealing, slip at the end.

Posted by: Jimmy Huck at Nov 23, 2005 10:57:37 AM

Whereas what the Church means is that, if an alien shapeshifter shifted his shape into that of a duck, he might be able to make himself just like a duck right down to having duck DNA. He would walk like a duck and quack like a duck, but those would only be the accidents of being a duck. Really and truly, in body, mind, and soul, he'd still be an alien shapeshifter.

Posted by: Maureen at Nov 23, 2005 10:58:44 AM

But Maureen, even I am an alien shapeshifter. The internet is a great enabler.

Posted by: Old Zhou at Nov 23, 2005 11:03:19 AM

I digress:
Mike said: "But it seems a large percentage of your readers are waiting for the Church to change its mind, to go back to the "true" mass."

Mike, please update your understanding of VII.
The traditionalists I know are in full communion with Rome and VII.
We are one church
with two distinct ritual formations.
We Roman Catholics have a choice of rites -
Novus Ordo or Tridentine (Indult)-
both are valid.
May you find peace with your form.

Posted by: Marc at Nov 23, 2005 11:04:16 AM

I agree with much of what Amy writes here, but the last graf is, I think, off point. It certainly isn't the case that the gay priests on NPR and elsewhere in the media are declaring their homosexuality from the pulpit. That's absurd. There is a major news story that's been developing for, well, forever it seems, and they are commenting on it because the document is *about them.* You can't sit a seminary candidate down and ask him, "Is Christ at the center of your life?", have that be the end of the interview, and expect to populate a seminary with good candidates for the priesthood. Of course one should not be reduced to his or her sexual orientation. The CDF's 1986 Letter to the World’s Bishops on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons states the matter quite plainly: "The human person, made in the image and likeness of God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation....Today the church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a 'heterosexual' or a 'homosexual' and insists that every person has a fundamental identity: the creature of God and, by grace, his child and heir to eternal life." But do you ignore it? No. That's a recipe for creating priests with serious psychosexual issues. The eschatological dimension of Holy Orders doesn't abrogate the need to address one's sexuality, and this is why one hears heterosexual priests talking about the sacrificing marriage and the challanges of celibacy. Of course, someone whose sexuality is at the center of their life doesn't belong in the priesthood--straight or gay. But one who denies it?

Posted by: Grant Gallicho at Nov 23, 2005 11:05:17 AM

How is it "hiding sexuality" to say that, if you're going to vow celibacy, you're stating that sex and sexuality is not as important to you as Christ?

For any religious, his or her primary orientation should be towards Christ and his service, like a compass needle toward the North Pole. Everything else you think, everything else you feel, should become something you can take or leave as it serves the primary orientation.

If athletes can dedicate their lives to the Olympics, weighing every action and every piece of food in light of their purpose, I think it's not too much to ask that vowed religious do the same. Indeed, there's not much point in being vowed religious, if that's not your primary intent.

Posted by: Maureen at Nov 23, 2005 11:05:30 AM

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