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March 15, 2006

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Clayton

So JP II initiated audiences with his Theology of the Body, and Benedict XVI launches his audiences with the Theology of the Body of Christ. I thought he was going to do this with his first encyclical, but it makes more sense to do it in the context of an ongoing catechesis... it's more thematic than topical.

Ken

Describing as “baseless” an “individualistic interpretation of the proclamation about the Kingdom made by Christ”...

Which is the complete opposite of the common American Protestant dogma where Christ is nothing more than "My Personal LORD and Savior".

Realist

It bothers me (as noted many times) that some very smart, contemporary, biblical scholars have significant doubts about the authenticity of many of the sayings of Jesus but the Vatican continues to remain silent about these conclusions. A case in point is the recent commentary by B16 as noted above by Amy.

190±. Fishing for Humans: (1a) Mark 1:16-20 = Matt 4:18-22, (1b) Gos. Eb. 1b, (2) Luke 5:4-11, (3) John 21:1-8; These sayings are not from the historical Jesus based on the conclusions of many scholars but are later additions by well-meaning scribes.

See http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb190.html and http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

It is great that readers of Amy's blog are defenders of the faith but they should not have to be. That is the function of the Vatican. And we pay them to do so!!! So why aren't we getting our money's worth?

These old white GUYS can't even get limbo expunged!!!

The Vatican could at least excommunicate Crossan (ex-priest) and Armstrong (ex-nun?).

Chris Sullivan

The Pope pointed out that Jesus' message "is completely misunderstood" if it is separated "from the context of the faith and hope of the chosen people."

Modern deviations from the faith often seem to originate in excessively individualistic interpretations outside the faith community, outside the body of Christ. Ken is right that this is very much the Protestant Way.

God Bless

Clayton

It is great that readers of Amy's blog are defenders of the faith but they should not have to be. That is the function of the Vatican. And we pay them to do so!!! So why aren't we getting our money's worth?

Ummm... wow. What about the universal call to holiness?

Tom Haessler

Why doesn't the pope excommunicate John Dominic Crossan? Because so many Catholic and Protestant exegetes are doing such an excellent job refuting the claims of the Jesus Seminar people by using the historical critical methodology.

Tom Haessler

When ultra-conservative Catholics were blasting Raymond Brown, Cardinal Ratzinger said "I wish the Church had a hundred Raymond Browns." Ray Brown did an excellent job deconstructing the Jesus Seminar and Crossan. Another Catholic scholar manages, in two sentences, to do the job. "As historical-Jesus research, it is unsalvageable. Not that a long historical struggle has turned out to have been in vain, for there are no signs of any such struggle having taken place." [B.F.Meyer, CBQ 55 (1993), 576]

Realist

So we should send our Peter Pence contributions to Raymond Brown, B.F. Meyer and Tom?

And just how many theologians and bureaucrats are in the current Vatican Curia? I can't find names or salaries?

Dan

Realist, you are unreal. Don't you alrady know that the Cardinals in Rome are all rich beyond belief? But of course the reason you can't find names or salary information is that it is all TOP SECRET. Opus Dei and the Cardinals share the loot, so of course they don't want you to know about.

Realist

Well we do know the salaries of the USA government employees from bottom to top because the "pew peasants" rule. Time for the same thing to happen with the Vatican.

Realist

The search results to date:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF)
Prefect: William Joseph Levada
Secretary: Angelo Amato
Under-secretary: P. Joseph Augustine Di Noia, O.P.
Promotor of Justice: Charles Scicluna
Staff of 33
25 members: cardinals, archbishops and bishops
28 consultors

Budget not given.

Realist

Search continued:
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0504002.htm
"The income reported by the Holy See in 2004 was about $246.3 million -- at July 11, 2005, exchange rates -- while expenses were about $242.6 million"

http://bcm.bc.edu/issues/winter_2005/ft_vatican.html
"For the 1.1 billion Catholics, there are about 1,700 people working in the Roman Curiae. As Drucker pointed out, if the same ratio were applied to our government in Washington, D.C., there would be 500 federal employees working in the capital, as opposed to roughly 500,000. "

"And the Vatican is quite conscious of American financial generosity toward the Holy See. Contrary to popular impression, the Vatican is a spartan operation. Its annual operating budget is about $277 million. The University of Notre Dame's annual operating budget, by comparison, is $700 million. The Vatican's endowment ("patrimony" is the term of art) is about $770 million. By contrast, the University of Notre Dame's endowment is $3.1 billion"

"Most readers are now thinking: What about the artwork—the Pietà, the Raphael frescoes, and so on? These treasures are literally priceless, but they appear on the Vatican books with a value of one euro. According to the statutes of the Vatican City State, they may never be sold or borrowed against. "

http://www.detnews.com/2005/religion/0504/12/A01-144149.htm
"The office doesn't publish financial figures. But it's estimated that Apsa's (Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic See) total budget is roughly $250 million, a sum which must cover the salaries of 2,500 employees of the Roman Curia. Most of that money comes from the return on its investments, from several hundred apartments it rents out in Rome, many at a below-market rate, and from contributions from local bishops' conferences. The American bishops kick in about $8 million a year, for example. "

Hmmm, even though I believe in financial transparency and maybe B16 will fix this glaring problem, the information above is sufficient for me to continue my Peter Pence contributions. Expunging limbo, Crossan and Armstrong from our Church IMHO still needs to addressed. The sooner the better. Silence unfortunately gives credence and both Crossan and Armstrong make some valid arguments which need official review.


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