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April 11, 2006

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David Kubiak

I recall reading somewhere that the Pope said he did not intend to deal very much formally with sexual ethics, "a subject about which perhaps too much has been written already." This seems very right to me. Christian sexual ethics only make sense once a person is converted to Christ.

Patrick Rothwell

Having finally read the piece, I think Winters' thesis in general is spot-on, but I think that he did not choose his targets as well as he should have. Per Amy, he missed the mark with Weigel - (and perhaps Fessio), but the evidence he marshalls against Neuhaus is nonetheless pretty accurate. There were other persons and voices he could have identified with his thesis - Dale Vree in particular - that would have emphasized his point even better. In fact, linking Vree and Neuhaus together as the prophets of doom should be a two-fer for Winters, since the tone of the article has more than a hint of gloating score-settling to it, and the linkage would probably annoy both of them.

I also wouldn't be too sure that Winters himself has been taken by surprise by Pope Benedict - he is a sharper observer than that, even if one ultimately does not share his views on this or that point.

paul

Yeah, that article was spot on. Repeatedly saying that the right's main priority is dealing with the homosexual agenda is surely an accurate thesis.

But I think Winters missed a larger bone of contention. The Pope has been infuriatingly silent on the issue of whether or not dogs go to heaven when they die. That was a big-ticket agenda item, and conservative Catholics are getting a little impatient with the Pope, and that's confirmed by all the scathing attacks on the Pope we see on a regular basis from people like Mark Shea, Amy, Jimmy Akin and others.

scriblerus

I found Neuhaus' bit about the late John Paul II's habit of keeping "open house" at the Vatican apartments rather interesting and troubling. It seems to be one instance of JPII's charismatic, man of the people personality leading to some excesses, despite all the good it did (e.g., WYD).

Benedict is rightly clamping down on this. It was an abuse that needed to be ended. At the very least this sort of access allowed people who agreed with the Pope on certain things (especially matters of the family, sexuality, etc.) to give the impression of being much more favored by the Church than they actually are. No matter what Fr. Neuhaus wants to right, John Paul II did not teach in "Centessimus Annus" that justice requires that democracy and capitalism be spread around the globe.

The article does put its finger on something important, viz., the inability of people from a variety of viewpoints (liberal, neo-theo-conservative, NOR) to claim the Pope for their own camp.

Also regarding Neuhaus' response to Winters, his last bit about TNR ranting brought back memories of the elementary school retort: "I know you are but what am I?"

Will Barrett

Patrick,

I just don't see how you can say that Winters reads Neuhaus accurately. Consider his response that Amy just updated her post with. And as I said below "certainly raising questions about silence in the face of potential rejection of the document on priestly ordination [of homosexuals] is legitimate -- but no where near the disappointment that Winters hints at." At a talk Neuhaus recently gave at the CIC in Washington D.C he certainly expressed total confidence in Benedict and he also hinted, if memory serves, that there would be some follow-through on the document on ordination of homosexuals. I just don't see how you can say that Winters accurately captures Neuhaus' disappointment with Benedict.

Rosie M. Banks

Just read Fr. Neuhaus' response to Winters and noticed that, though he references Linker's piece, he won't (and hasn't) referenced Linker by name.

Sounds like there is more to that whole kerfuffle than meets the eye.

Rosie M. Banks

Just read Fr. Neuhaus' response to Winters and noticed that, though he references Linker's piece, he won't (and hasn't) referenced Linker by name.

Sounds like there is more to that whole kerfuffle than meets the eye.

Rosie M. Banks

Just read Fr. Neuhaus' response to Winters and noticed that, though he references Linker's piece, he won't (and hasn't) referenced Linker by name.

Sounds like there is more to that whole kerfuffle than meets the eye.

jean danielou

People are complaining above that JPII gave off the impression that Team Neuhaus was a "favored" group of Catholics. Do you know why that was the case? Because they were. Fact.

Annoying Pedant

"apoplexic"

I think you mean "apoplectic."

RP Burke

Back to the matter at hand.

Why wouldn't anyone expect Benedict XVI to be different from Cardinal Ratzinger the head of the Inquisition? If I became the boss at my office, things would be different even though I'd still be working there. In any event, past performance is not guarantee of future results, as we all know.

It also seems, as Amy points out, that Benedict XVI agrees with one of his truly "Great" predecessors, John XXIII:

"In essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity." (Ad Petri Cathedram (1959), No. 72)

Henry

In regard to "John Paul the Great?", perhaps you were thinking of

JOHN PAUL THE FAIR
cornell-catholic-circle.blogspot.com/2006/04/john-paul-fair_04.html

To bestow the title of "the Great" is a judgment which only history can make. Irrespective of the details of John Paul's career, wonderful and storied as they might be, we are simply in no position to make the judgment that he ought to be known as John Paul the Great.

Andrew S.

The Shrine of the Holy Whapping also posted on the "John Paul the Great" ordeal and had a lively arguement in the combox.

"papal liturgies; Koran-kissing; praying with African pagan priests; bishop selection; the Vatican's statements on Islam and terrorism; the lack of clarity on various foreign policy issues - the Iraq War - coming from the Vatican; the altar girl decision; general liturgical complaints; lack of enforcement or teeth behind statements like Ex Corde Ecclesia; the handling of the sexual abuse crisis and errant, non-compliant bishops on a number of issues...."

Good points. But he set the Church in the right direction. And Benedict will continue the reform I believe.

Ferde Rombola

"But he set the Church in the right direction."

That's my thinking and the hope is BXVI will finish the job.

JPII lived in a different world from the rest of us and from his peers. Just look at the prodigious volume of his writing and the traveling he did. I think he saw his mission in evangelizing the young people of the world and he did. I can't count the number of young people he inspired to convert to Catholicism; how many men he inspired to become priests.

As has been remarked elsewhere in cyberspace, he was a lousy manager. The rest of the package was exemplary. The book isn't closed on JPII.

F.

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