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June 14, 2006
Expecting the Unexpected
Well, I've been meaning to write something like this for a while - not in response to virulent anti-breeders, but simply on how parenting is a delightful experience in hanging out with other fun humans. If you choose to look at it that way.
Yoffe gently mentioned that the woman might want to reconsider her decision not to have children.
The response?
The majority of letter-writers were not single but happily married and professionally successful—the people you'd expect would make wonderful parents, and in a previous generation probably would have. Many didn't just write about the adult pleasures of their childless (or "childfree") life—travel, restaurants, undamaged upholstery, sex in the living room—but expressed contempt for those deluded enough to want to reproduce. As one woman wrote: "My husband and I are childless by choice and I heartily encourage all younger friends to consider it. It is the most wonderful lifestyle, free of whining and sniveling and mini-vans."
Yoffe continues by making her own case - she too, had thought she would remain childless, but changed her mind, and has to this to say:
I noticed something else in the letters from nonparents that I had experienced myself: They have an unrealistic sense of the passage of time—or at least the passage of parental time. They seem stuck on the notion that being a parent means forever climbing a Mt. Everest of diapers (and what happens to these punctilious couples if a spouse ends up needing diapers?). Diapers pass in a snap. It all goes so fast. When our daughter turned 6, my husband and I realized with a pang that we were already one-third of the way through the time she would live with us. And I worry that the writers have an unrealistic sense of their own passage through time—believing they'll forever feel that nothing is more important than building their career or taking that next trip.
In Maybe Baby, a collection of essays on whether to have children, Michelle Goldberg, a married writer in her 20s, decides she'll probably stay childless because studies show that childless couples are not only happy, but that having children tends to ruin a marriage. Michelle, maybe I'm an asterisk in these reports, but I can't recall a single fight my husband and I have had over our daughter (we have occasional fights, but not about her). We still have adult conversation, we go to the theater, we even have sex (granted, not in the living room). But the other night, my daughter, now 10 years old and no diapers in sight, was reading a book on American history and asked my husband about a confusing episode. A week in Paris could not have made my husband happier than telling her everything he knew about Iran-Contra.
The point about time is so well-taken. You only know this with, well ...time. The baby days pass in a flash, and most of the time we look back on them with nostalgia. Well, qualified nostalgia, but nostalgia nonetheless.
Parenting is not for everyone, by any means. Most of the time people who don't want to have children probably...shouldn't, I'm thinking. But the contempt for parents and children is a sign of a deeply unhealthy culture. Which comes as no surprise to anyone here.
Everyone into the minivan - and don't forget your t-shirts! 
Via Lickona, who knows whereof he speaks
(For the record, we don't own a mini-van...)
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
Comments
I was just thinking about this passage of time issue yesterday at lunch. I saw a young mother wrestling with a toddler that did not want to go into the childseat in the back of the minivan. I though about how that kid depends on his parents for just about everything right now--food, water, shelter, clothing, education, health care, culture, religion.
But give the kid 15 years, and he'll be at a point where he will want almost nothing from his parents--except money.
I was 15 when my father told me, "You want clothes? Go get a job."
15 years.
Seems like yesterday.
Indeed, the time when our children (rightly) need so much from us is, on the scale of the modern lifetime, so short.
People will pick up a 30 year mortgage in a flash.
What is 15 years of caring for all or most of the needs of a child, followed by maybe another 10 of significant financial support?
You end up with a lot more than a piece of real estate.
(p.s. I don't have kids. Not my choice.)
Posted by: Old Zhou at Jun 14, 2006 3:48:46 PM
WOW .. coincidence?
Just found out Im preggers with #7! WOO HOO!!!
Posted by: Yvonne at Jun 14, 2006 3:49:21 PM
Interesting post, overall. And I think the topic is more relevant than we think. Several authors have considered the dramatically low birth rates in Western Europe as a sign of a kind of civilizational ennui, a fundamental boredom with life, and an almost hopelessness about the future of humanity.
I think there's something to that, even if it might not be as well developed in the minds of people who choose to either remain childless altogether or put a severe clamp on having more than one or two children as it might be in the writings of authors like George Weigel.
Just because it might not be all teased out in these people's minds doesn't mean that it isn't real.
Most of the time people who don't want to have children probably...shouldn't, I'm thinking.
That is objectively true in some cases I'll wager. However, going further down the path of conversion can do wonders for the selfishness that leads many to refuse to be open to life and the joys and challenges of parenthood.
Posted by: Sean Gallagher at Jun 14, 2006 3:55:23 PM
You mean we will not be hot, jet setting, living room sex having, thirty somethings forever? Dang!
Well, there is Heffner I guess, but even Hef might need some Depends soon, I am sure one of his girlfriends will be happy to help him out for just a small fee, I mean gift.
Posted by: Tracy at Jun 14, 2006 3:59:34 PM
Congratulations Yvonne! You are WAY beyond needing a minivan. You need a 15 passenger van or, perhaps, a tram.
Posted by: Charles at Jun 14, 2006 4:01:05 PM
It's true that time passes so quickly. My daughter, who is almost six, has long, curly hair and I was looking at a photo from a trip to Disneyland when she was two when she was still pretty much bald!
Parenting certainly isn't all sweetness and light, and we people a disservice when we suggest otherwise. I always think back to that old Peace Corps motto: "the toughest job you'll ever love."
And I do love it. My kids are 8 and (almost) 6 right now, and--when they are not driving me nuts--they are a blast. I love watching how their minds work, how they make connections, how they remember something you told them six months ago that you've forgotten. I love watching their moral and religious senses awaken. And perhaps most of all, I love watching them learn how to read!
Of course, my eight-year old son tells me that as soon as he turns 18 he will 1) get his own apartment; 2) buy a television set, a gun and a sword; and 3) stop going to mass. I'll keep you posted on how it goes...:-)
Posted by: Peter Nixon at Jun 14, 2006 4:04:44 PM
Oh, and yes we own a minivan...:-)
Posted by: Peter Nixon at Jun 14, 2006 4:05:29 PM
Congratulations Yvonne!
(And y'all might be interested to know that the other 6 are all...boys!)
Posted by: amywelborn at Jun 14, 2006 4:12:55 PM
Prior to my conversion, after five kids in six years my husband and I opted to sterilzation, a choice I now deeply regret. I would adopt a group of needy siblings in a heartbeat if my husband would so desire.
Just learned my sole sibling's family is expecting #8... sigh.
If anyone is toying with the idea of cutting off your fruitfulness I'd encourage you to reconsider. It's sad...
Posted by: Jenny at Jun 14, 2006 4:14:12 PM
But the contempt for parents and children is a sign of a deeply unhealthy culture.
Not only that, but those exercising such contempt are apparently oblivious to the fact that the comfort of their old age will depend on the labor of children of other people. (Not only will social security be funded by the earnings of those who will be in the workforce then, but even the chidless couples' savings of stocks, bonds, and cash will be worthless unless they can buy goods and services, and there won't be any goods and services unless other people's children produce them. As G.B. Shaw said in his "Intelligent Woman's Guide," you can't save food.)
Posted by: Seamus at Jun 14, 2006 4:31:01 PM
Congrats Yvonne. I am expecting number seven. I have 5 daughters, 1 son and it seems or new arrival is probably a girl...maybe some match making is in order?
Posted by: Maria Ashwell at Jun 14, 2006 4:44:29 PM
Most of the time people who don't want to have children probably...shouldn't, I'm thinking.
I agree with you there. But as pointed out, the real issue is why are so many people not wanting to have children?
a kind of civilizational ennui, a fundamental boredom with life, and an almost hopelessness about the future of humanity.
Partly, maybe. At least my anecdotal experience chalks it up more to selfishness than anything else. A selfishness that is nurtured and fed by a relentless consumer culture.
Posted by: c matt at Jun 14, 2006 4:51:40 PM
Not to lay all of the ills of our culture on the feet of Norman Lear, but I recall distinctly, when I was a child, an episode of "All in the Family" where Mike and Gloria were talking about children, and Mike said to Gloria something about not wanting to bring another child into the world considering how terrible things were with war, poverty, overcrowding, the Nixon administration...
That was the first time in my life I ever heard anyone talk about children as a burden rather than a joy that should be welcomed no matter what the circumstances. When that attitude became the dominant one in our society, we passed a very important bar in the developing culture of death we have to battle with now.
Congrats Yvonne and family - mazel tov!
Posted by: Tim Ferguson at Jun 14, 2006 5:25:30 PM
My sixth grade son and I attended the funeral for one of his classmates today. At the end of this very moving funeral Mass, the boy's father stood before the congregation to speak about his gratitude for the opportunity to be this child's father. His words were a testimony to the sanctity and blessing of all human life.
Posted by: Catholic Mom at Jun 14, 2006 5:27:56 PM
Why are there so many people, even married people, that don't want children? (I'm thinking not only of the US, but also Japan, Europe)?
I think it is not only selfishness, or a consumer society. And I think the reasons vary.
My paternal grandmother had four boys, aged 5-9, when my grandfather died. In 1945. Not a good time for a young woman with four little boys, no husband, and no real education. The youngest two went into a Catholic orphanage for a time. It was only by marrying a gangster (of the Sicilian sort) that she was able to reform a household and get her sons back together. So she, and I'm pretty sure she was Catholic since the boys were baptized and went to a Catholic orphanage, always preached few kids, even no kids, to everyone who asked her. Based on her difficulties.
But her grandchildren did not necessarily listen. I just found out that my younger cousin already has five grandchildren herself. But not necessarily a husband.
Which brings me to another factor which I think is significant: divorce. When marriages can be ended by quick, easy, "no fault" divorce, adding children into the settlement makes things exponentially more complicated. People who are thinking about hitting the marital exit in a few years, or who are concerned that their spouse might, might not be thinking about the "gift" of the child so much as "will having a or another child make the marriage stronger, or drive the spouse closer to the exit?" And kids go through hell in divorces.
And, women pursuing their own professional careers since the 1960's is also a factor. I know some women can have two, maybe three kids while still holding down executive and professional jobs. But that falls apart when considering five, or eight. On the other hand, I believe recent studies have shown that non-working wives (and I find more of them among young couples these days than 20 years ago) have much more time and energy to welcome another child as that unexpected gift. An I have yet to find a family where this works for the "role reversal" philosphy of mom having a professional career and dad staying at home to raise the kids. I've never seen a "stay-at-home" dad with eight kids. I'd almost bet that that was not really how we were made.
So there are many factors:
(1) The generation that went through the Great Depression and World War II formed many people who considered large families as a very serious liability. I think these are the "elder statesmen" of the current no kids or small family movement. They are being honest based on their experiences.
(2) The weakening of the marriage bond in society by no-fault divorce makes (a) decisions regarding children complicated and add possibly unhealthy dimensions to the decision, and (b) results in many children suffering through divorces and other forms of broken family life. "Children" and "marriage" are connected, if at all, in many new, and not so stable, ways.
(3) You really can't have it all. Most women cannot pursue life-long professional careers and raise a significant number of kids. Of course, even many marriage fall apart with no kids if the spouses put careers first and, for example, live on different continents or coasts. Making a conscious decision to be a stay-at-home mother opens the way for larger families, and also helps to define roles in the marriage and family. In the 1980's, many young women still wanted to "have it all." I think that is changing. Maybe 9/11 had something to do with waking us from that dream.
Posted by: Old Zhou at Jun 14, 2006 5:29:05 PM
I also remember the All in the Family episode when Mike didn't want to bring another child into this world.
The episode ended with the reading of this quote attributed to Ralph Waldo Emerson, among others:
Success
To laugh often and much;
to win the respect of intelligent people
and the affection of children;
to earn the appreciation of honest critics
and endure the betrayal of false friends;
to appreciate beauty; to find the best in others;
to leave the world a bit better,
whether by a healthy child,
a garden patch
or a redeemed social condition;
to know even one life has breathed easier
because you have lived.
This is to have succeeded.
After this had been read, Mike was ready to welcome the baby that was already on the way.
As much as I like to blame TV for contributing to moral decay, I think that this particular episode actually affirmed parenthood.
Posted by: JTII at Jun 14, 2006 5:54:42 PM
The Kids Are A Pain In The Butt Party?
Let them not have children, sad excuses for human beings that they are. Let them roll around in their material alleged "wealth." Let them grow old alone, miserable impotents, and die alone.
More room for my kids and grandkids.
Posted by: Adam at Jun 14, 2006 5:55:47 PM
Last week I had a conversation with my 85 year old great uncle who was a young sailor at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1945.
He talked about how different the world is today from 60 years ago. Back then, he would have never had the question, "What religion do I want to follow?" You were just told by your parents, "You're Catholic," and that was that. And you never wondered, "Should I divorce my wife?" or "Does my wife want to divorce me?" Such questions just did not exist in most people's minds. Same with having kids. It was part of human life. And his parents (my great-grandparents, whom I knew) also lived that way.
Now we live in a cultural of extreme personal freedom where every single aspect, thing and decision in our life involves a multitude of choices. What religion do we want to follow today? Who do I want to be with today? In what way? Do I want to be married? Do I want to have children? How many children do I want? What kind of career path do I want? What color do I want my hair to be? What color do I want my eyes to be (thanks to contacts)?
...I want...
...I want...
...I want...
...I want...
Recently I have been most grateful to God about several things which don't depend on my personal choice. Like what time the sun comes up, or the seasons, or the phases of the moon, or the stars.
I'm not sure that I think going back to 1940 is a good idea, where many people thought very little about things, but there is the need, in our modern world of endless choices, of expansive personal freedom, to do a much better job for formation, of catechesis, so that, in the onslaught of messages about "what you need" from the media, from the society, we might be able to hear, "what God wants to give you..."
Posted by: Old Zhou at Jun 14, 2006 6:06:19 PM
Where can I get one of those shirts!:)
Posted by: Jessie at Jun 14, 2006 6:31:36 PM
To go back to the original letter-writer's original question (how to handle nosy ``When are you having children?'' questions) Prudie got it right the first time. You don't owe people an answer to overly personal questions, and for the most part, something polite but uninformative is good enough. If they're such clods that they persist in asking, you are justified in telling them to ``Butt out.''
BTW lpom: Amy's three oldest children are from a previous marriage. I remember her writing of her upcoming marriage to Michael in OSV several years ago, so it doesn't seem to be a secret.
Posted by: Annalucia at Jun 14, 2006 6:37:37 PM
Jessie,
If you're serious, you can get one of those shirts here:
http://www.prickwear.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=11&idproduct=9412
There's plenty of stuff on the site which is rather unpleasant, but this one is a classic.
Posted by: Lickona at Jun 14, 2006 6:53:57 PM
Wait until the well-traveled, epicurious childless husband decides at age 45 or50 he wants progeny, and trades in the well-traveled, epicurious childless wife for a newer more fertile model. doh!
it's all very well for the man to fritter his 30s away.
Posted by: kathleen reilly at Jun 14, 2006 6:59:19 PM
It is the most wonderful lifestyle, free of whining and sniveling and mini-vans ...
I propose a new physical law -- The Law of Conservation of Whining and Sniveling. It states: "The total amount of whining and sniveling in a family is a conserved quantity. The fewer children there are to whine and snivel, the more whining and sniveling will be done by the (so-called) adults."
Sure, Nobel committee, I'll be glad to go to Stockholm to pick up my prize!
Posted by: Bartleby at Jun 14, 2006 7:10:48 PM
I checked the website out for the shirt and it was way too scary to order from. I'm damaged for life!
Posted by: Jessie at Jun 14, 2006 7:18:44 PM
The lure of the delusion of "eternal youth", sums up, I think, why some couples, although I suspect it is usually the sole decision of the man, opt for childlessness. Nothing says "all grown up" like having progeny totally dependent upon you. As for kids "ruining" a marriage, please! I have been involved in far too many divorces as an attorney and although the parents have often fought over custody of the kids, I can think of no divorce, out of hundreds, where the kids were the cause of the divorce. The causes were usually, in order: (1) Infidelity, (2) Drug or alcohol abuse, (3) Refusal of husband to work, (4) Lack of money and (5) Constant fighting (usually, although not always, verbal).
Posted by: Donald R. McClarey at Jun 14, 2006 7:24:27 PM
