« "Bully Pulpit" | Main | Magister on music »

June 27, 2006

Comments

Clayton

I've never seen catechesis on liturgy done in such a proactive and clear way. Kudos to Bishop Carlson.

Elena

Good for him!

padrechillin

Wow, what a good bishop Bp Carlson is, please pray for him. I can't imagine dealing with such insanity. Pray we get more bishops like him.

Henry Dieterich

Bishop Carlson came to our parish's 25th anniversary and gave the homily for the opening Mass. We are not in Saginaw, but in the neighboring diocese of Lansing; nevertheless, we have two men from the our parish who are candidates for the priesthood in his diocese. Our own excellent bishop has reached retirement age and submitted his resignation. We are praying for a bishop like Bishop Carlson--although he will not face the challenge that Saginaw undoubtedly is.

Tim Ferguson

Bishop Carlson is my hero! God love him!

Rich Leonardi

Clarity, charity, and courage -- just what a new bishop in a troubled diocese should bring.

Lynn

Give us more Bishops with the courage to speak the truth clearly, without apology for not being "inclusive."

Ave Maria!

My relatives live in Saginaw and I am familiar with the long time suffering of the faithful there. So many of dear relatives hardly realize they were no longer practicing the Roman Catholic faith. One very small example is that they did not 'do' the Jubilee year there. But the examples could go on for the length of a book.

I ahve a dear friend who did remain Catholic a nd now there are a dozen seminarians. Who can know the hell Bp. Carlson has had to put up with? God bless him! So much sreaming oppostion.

I remember going to the gutted cathedral some years back with a 'nun' doing the Mass and the 'sacramental minister' doing the consecration. And at my aunt's parish there was a big bowl of pita like bread with crumbs abounding that was supposed to be consecrated. A holy priest assured me it was invalid matter and thus not consecrated but I felt my relatives to be cheated of the Sacrament and of Mass, really. The bishop had his own recipes for invalid breads. That former bishop has now gone to his reward, and I hope he believed in the sacrament of confession enough to have gone before he died.

s.d.

Am I correct in reading (under "The Posture of the People at Mass") that the bishop requires all to stand until the last communicant has received? At the risk of taking another lash at a deceased equine, does the GIRM actually require this?

Chris

The diocesan website said he's releasing the recipe to be used for eucharistic bread, but I haven't seen it yet.

Lawrence King

SD wrote:

At the risk of taking another lash at a deceased equine, does the GIRM actually require this?

The GIRM (or at least the American adaptation of the GIRM) leaves this to the local bishop's discretion.

For what it's worth, the GIRM does not leave the posture after the Agnus Dei to the bishop's discretion -- it is supposed to be standing. Only a few "conservative" bishops (e.g., Bruskewitz) in the USA have decreed kneeling to be the posture in this pre-communion time. So I was surprised that Carlson's adaptation has kneeling before and standing after communion -- it's the first time I've heard of that combination.

padrechillin

The GIRM does not require the people to stand during the entire distribution of Holy Communion, but if I am not mistaken the American Bishops asked for a permission from Rome to do so, leaving it up to the individual bishop to either have the people of his diocese stand or kneel at that time. The diocese of Erie PA and WV does it- people in and out of the respective diocese(s) make fun of that reality- ha-ha. But if this is the only thing Bp. Carlson is allowing that is a little crazy- God bless him since he is cleaning up most of the insanity in Saginaw. We need more bishops with his fortitude. Let's see if the wackos who have been in charge there for so long under the late Bp. U (R.I.P.) actually comply. It's going to be a long battle- maybe that is why he says kneelers are not required until 2009 in all Churches in the diocese! Please pray for this good bishop

Hennepin

This is from the GIRM from USCCB and
see below "they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed."

43. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fraters (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below.

They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.53

s.d.

Thanks for the info. I agree, given the job he's tackling, nobody should have a problem with that one minor issue. I've been to only one parish that practiced it (everyone standing until everyone had received), and it worked well. But that was a tiny parish out in west Texas (tiny church, only one mass, and spiritedly alive in the way a parish can be when every Catholic in town worships together), and communion took only a few minutes. It's hard to imagine how one can enforce uniformity in standing in a large parish, what with children, the elderly, and the infirm collapsing into their seats as the communion line goes on and on....

janen7

Halleluia!

A Saginaw native

mb

An honest question, asked with respect and some trepidation bec I do not want to start flame wars: what is so bad about the Saginaw blessing? The first verse is a quote, the second a prayer. We know that God is as much feminine as masculine (I was taught that pre VII by stern no-nonense fully habited IrishAmerican - read Jansenist - nuns). I do not see how the blessing in any way denies our Jewish heritage. It does not deny the fully masuline being of Jesus. It goes with the traditions that I just read about in Way of the Fathers referring to feeding on the milk of God.

Tom

Essentially this:

There is, and always has been a distinction between mystical spiritual writing, theological writing, and liturgical language. Liturgical language is not speculative or experimental, nor does it directly "quote" the insights of personal mystical or theological language.

For example, a good parallel to this is the establishment of the canon of Scripture. One of the criterea was that the book in question be appropriate to be read universally throughout the Church. So for that reason, books like the Shepherd of Hermas or the letters of Ignatius of Antioch, which were treasured by many local churches, were not approved for the canon. Not a perfect analogy, but sort of there.

John Sheridan

From just a grammatical standpoint, the second verse refers to the "Lord." Lord is a masculine term; it defies logic to use a feminine pronoun to refer to it. Stuff like that bugs me--perhaps inordintely.

Liam

There is historical precedent in English usage in the *secular* context for using the title "Lord" for a woman holding such an office. The practice was not dominant, but it did arise, in part to recognize that the office was greater than the particular characteristics of its holder. Et cet.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)