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July 30, 2006
Shoving Off
We'll keep this post flowing with links to stories about the events on a boat in Pittsburgh today, beginning with this WaPo story by Michelle Boorstein.
The theological problems are not really dealt with in the story - why the Church would say these are invalid ordinations even if the initial ordinations were carried out by a validly ordained male bishop (which is something I wouldn't take for granted, despite the group's claims that it was so.)
The language is still "Church officials" say that the ordinations are not valid. There is just one layer missing there, that implies that again, this is a matter of contemporarly opinion. Is it really so problematic to simply say, "Catholic Church teaching and canon law..."
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
Comments
From the WaPo article:
"Tomorrow, Meehan and the 11 other women will lie prostrate before an altar, be presented with goblets and priestly robes..."
Priestly robes? Don't they mean red garbage bags?
Posted by: midwestmom at Jul 30, 2006 1:52:25 AM
An ode to the women getting ordained, with apologies to Gilligan and friends:
Come sit right back and you’ll hear a tale,
a tale of some heretics
That started from a Pittsburgh port,
aboard a tiny ship.
The mate was a fan of labyrinths
The skipper was a nun
10 other women were on board
for sacramental fun. (for sacramental fun)
The liturgy was getting rough,
The litany was long,
Invoking Lilith, Gaia too,
Seemed just a bit too wrong (though not to Bishop Spong)
The ship set ground in a strange new world; uncharted heresy.
With lesbians,
And feminists,
An acting deacon’s wife,
Peace activists,
And the rest
Here on Womanchurch Isle
So this is the tale of the priestesses
There here for a long, long time.
They’re sure to make a mess of things
And bitch and moan and whine.
No pope! No men! No canon law!
Not a dime to Peter’s Pence!
Like Lollard, Hussites, Bogomils,
They’ve left out common sense.
So join us here each year my friend,
There’s sure to be more fun,
With a hearty shout, “non serviam!
My will, not Thine be done.”
Posted by: Tim Ferguson at Jul 30, 2006 7:17:48 AM
Bravissimo, Tim!
Posted by: Maureen at Jul 30, 2006 10:36:10 AM
I just have a question -- why do these things always seem to take place on a boat anyway? Why don't they just rent out a nice hall and do their thing?
There's a movement that does certain acts in international waters, like pirate radio stations and illegal abortions, and I can see why they go out on boats. They get outside the territorial waters of a sovereign state and thus the laws don't apply to them.
But these gals are certainly within the territory of a Bishop's see, aren't they? Are rivers excluded from a diocese? And even if they are, what is the point? Do they think they are outside the jurisdiction of the Catholic Church if they are on a boat?
If this is their theory, I suppose we could say those riverboat gambling ships are a 10 commandment-free zone. In fact, I have heard that some of these cruise ships are like floating sodom and gommorahs, so maybe these floating ordination gals are tapping into something.
Posted by: chicagoan at Jul 30, 2006 11:02:17 AM
I'll be surprised if it gets much coverage in our local press here in Pittsburgh. I mean, the Steelers have reported to training camp this weekend. The PG probably even has Ann Rodgers working a Latrobe beat.
Posted by: ambrose at Jul 30, 2006 2:48:10 PM
This business of trying to call into question the authority and finality of what Holy Mother Church has said on this subject is a rather dangerous business! If they're not careful, they'll get something more definite: if not a papal decree with all the bells and whistles -- and if that's not enough, an ecumenical council.
You want something really definite? Keep it up -- you'll get it . . .
Posted by: Fr Martin Fox at Jul 30, 2006 3:05:00 PM
I think they're going to get just what they want and are expecting: excommunicated and lots of media attention. Then they'll start their own churches, either independent churches; or maybe United Church of Christ of Episcopalian will adopt them. Either way it's messy. I'm wondering how the parishoners in that bishop's diocese are feeling about all of this. I hope they're not supporting it!
Posted by: kbm at Jul 30, 2006 3:36:11 PM
Taking a page from these gals' playbook . . .
I think a group of us should announce that we've made ourselves representatives of the WaPo and the NYT human resources office, and then we publicly "hire" each other as "reporters". Next we show up at the next White House press conference wearing "Press" ID badges that we made ourselves.
If anyone calls us on it, we'll scream "discrimination against the Little Guy."
Who's with me?
Posted by: Marion (Mael Muire) at Jul 30, 2006 3:43:19 PM
Wow Marion, brilliant! I'm with you!!
Cheers from Canada. Tony
Posted by: Tony at Jul 30, 2006 5:04:07 PM
Is it really so problematic to simply say, "Catholic Church teaching and canon law..."[>]
In a word, yes. The reporter wouldn't say this in his own voice, but would have to cite a source -- in this case, an expert like the bishop -- to say this. You -- Catholic writer Amy Welborn -- could also be such a source, and so could a Vatican document or two if the reporter knew where to find it.
Posted by: RP Burke at Jul 30, 2006 5:15:29 PM
Good, Tony! Let's roll!
Can't afford a chartered boat in a major port as these gals can. Have to settle for a paddleboat in our neighborhood lake. But call the press!
Posted by: Marion at Jul 30, 2006 6:12:36 PM
Hey, Tony and Marion - count me in! I'd love to say I write for the WaPo - looks great on a resume, don't it?
Are these women going to put this on their resume, too? "Um, may we call your former employer...?"
Posted by: Kathleen Lundquist at Jul 30, 2006 7:04:51 PM
I think I know the answer to the question someone asked earlier, "why do these gals conduct their pseudo-ordinations onboard ship"?
Answer: They be pirate-priestesses! Ar-ar! AVAST, look lively, ladies, there be reporters to port, and news cameras to the staarrrrb'rd!
Posted by: Marion at Jul 30, 2006 7:39:08 PM
The diocesean paper for the Pittsburgh Diocese (Pittsburgh Catholic) had several features this week concerning the boat ceremony. There was this Q&A (http://www.pittsburghcatholic.org/newsarticles_more.phtml?id=1720) that explained what the "ordinations" were about and what teh Church teaches about this and the final installment of a series of articles about the priesthood (http://www.pittsburghcatholic.org/newsarticles_more.phtml?id=1721). There was also an editorial in the print edition that I can't find on their website. The two links I provided were on the front page of the paper.
In the Post-Gazette this morning the Forum was a point/counter-point debating gender and the priesthood. The Church's teachings were well represented by Robert Lockwood, who is also the manager of Pittsburgh Catholic ( http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06211/709479-109.stm). The opposing view was written by a local woman (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06211/709481-109.stm). i haven't seen anything on TV yet...maybe the 10 or 11 pm news.
Posted by: ambrose at Jul 30, 2006 8:47:15 PM
Oh, Channel 11 posted this http://www.wpxi.com/news/9598921/detail.html from the AP, but no video yet.
Posted by: ambrose at Jul 30, 2006 8:50:17 PM
Tim Ferguson, I love your lyrics. I sang them - the whole thing - to the tune of the Gilligan's Isle theme, and they fit perfectly.
Very clever. Thanks for the laugh.
Posted by: Marion at Jul 30, 2006 9:08:47 PM
Thanks Marion - it's a little talent I and some friends developed (re-writing other people's songs) to help maintain some sanity while in college seminary.
Posted by: Tim Ferguson at Jul 30, 2006 11:22:17 PM
I had forgotten about all this,
until the Prayer of the Faithful at Mass
on Sunday morning,
during the "open mic"
"and add your own intercessions..." part.
One fellow in his 60's
prayed fervently for them,
and that the Church would end
the legacy of discrimination.
Groan.
Made me wish we just had
"canned intercessions" read (prayed)
by a Master of Ceremonies,
and skip the risky "open mic" tradition.
Oh well.
I thought of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15.
God let him take his inheritance
and squander it with prostitutes,
and end up in the pig trough.
During "coffee time" afer Mass,
this same "Spirit of Vatican II" boomer
(whom I think is a married "ex-priest")
was running around showing people
the newspaper write up.
Several of us, however,
including one person ordained
in a non-Roman tradition,
just shook our heads at this mockery
of real ordination.
I mentioned something to his wife later
about the blessings of humility
and submission to the legitimate
authority of the Church.
She just smiled.
Roman Catholic Grey Panthers,
trying to bring about their implementation
of Vatican II
by guerilla tactics.
Posted by: Old Zhou at Jul 31, 2006 11:27:36 AM
In some of the earlier priestess cruises, they charged a stiff admission, on the order of $100 if I remember right. Ya gotta pay expenses for the "bishop" somehow.
Posted by: RC at Jul 31, 2006 11:49:55 AM
Hee, hee...good stuff, Tim.
Posted by: michael hugo at Jul 31, 2006 12:47:45 PM
Old Zhou,
Arrgh. Mass is one place you would hope to be free of that nonesense.
Makes me think that a clear message should be sent (by a responsible shepherd) to nip this in the bud. Maybe the bland, condescending smiles would be a tad less triumphant.
Posted by: michael hugo at Jul 31, 2006 12:53:52 PM
The theological problems are not really dealt with in the story - why the Church would say these are invalid ordinations even if the initial ordinations were carried out by a validly ordained male bishop (which is something I wouldn't take for granted, despite the group's claims that it was so.)
The reason these women "ordinations" are not valid, is the same reason that a validly ordained priest cannot consecrate oreos and milk into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
A woman is "invalid matter" for the sacrament of Holy Orders in the Roman Catholic Church.
Posted by: Tony at Jul 31, 2006 1:27:39 PM
Three cheers for Bishop Loverde who layed it on the line for Bridget Mary Meehan. Diogenes was complaining about another member of the group who talked to her Bishop who was much less open with her.
Posted by: Martin at Jul 31, 2006 2:18:39 PM
Fergie, that song's way too funny! I love it!
BMP
Posted by: Brian Michael Page at Jul 31, 2006 8:51:33 PM
