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August 10, 2006
This is what bothers people
Some people. I think. I'm going to try to articulate this, but recognize that it is a struggle to choose the words that really express what's in my head. But I have to try, because it's been rumbling around in my head for days (or longer) and it seems ridiculous and trite to post anything else before this.
So, my son flew out of Heathrow today. And yes, according to flight tracking, his flight did, indeed take off, about 3 hours late, but it is in the air, passengers without a single piece of hand luggage on them, fingering their passports in plastic bags, looking anxiously around at their fellow passengers, wondering, "Would you do it? Would you kill me? And all of us?"
This, along with recent arrests and disappearances, and Islamic fundamentalism/radicalism/fascism fomenting violence, repression and war throughout the globe, with the parties responsible being not the desperate unwashed but often the educated and, it seems at first glance, thoroughly at home in the the countries they seek to destroy -- all of this means something. A clash of civilizations? Some say no, others say of course, what else could it be?
And in this, those of us who are Catholic - and even many who are not - look to our leaders for perspective. Not directions, not policy pronouncements, but insight as to a spiritual stance within this state of the world.
Dissatisfaction with "Vatican" statments on, say the situation(s) in the Middle East or various acts is varied, with the most extreme being a total contempt for what anti-American Euroweenie prelates might have to say in criticism of Emperor Bush. Apart from that, the questions go in various directions, offered in various levels of intensity across the spectrum, until we get to the other end of contempt for a new breed of "Cafeteria Catholics" who put neocon pundits and policy-makers in the place of the Magisterium.
But there are many in the middle of that spectrum, who observe the world, listen to those prelates, reflect on Catholic teaching, and pace, ambiguous and confused. And I'd like to venture an opinion on what confuses and worries even those who believe that what the Pope says on this is to be taken more seriously than, say, his "prudential judgment" on whether it is going to rain tomorrow.
I think it is that in these statements, there seems to be a sort of distance from the reality raging around us. There is no direct engagement with the fundamental issues: the commitment to cripple the West and impose the radical, fundamentalist Islamist ideal in its stead. A total contempt for freedom and the intrinsic value of human life. And the determination and will to do this, by any means necessary.
In which "peace" means something different to those instigating the war than those defending themselves, in which there is no desire for co-existence or dialogue.
(after the jump)
From the beginning of Our Pontificate, amidst the horrors of the terrible war unleashed upon Europe, We have kept before Our attention three things above all: to preserve complete impartiality in relation to all the belligerents, as is appropriate to him who is the common father and who loves all his children with equal affection; to endeavour constantly to do all the most possible good, without personal exceptions and without national or religious distinctions, a duty which the universal law of charity, as well as the supreme spiritual charge entrusted to Us by Christ, dictates to Us; finally, as Our peacemaking mission equally demands, to leave nothing undone within Our power, which could assist in hastening the end of this calamity, by trying to lead the peoples and their heads to more moderate frames of mind and to the calm deliberations of peace, of a "just and lasting" peace.
Whoever has followed Our work during the three unhappy years which have just elapsed, has been able to recognize with ease that We have always remained faithful to Our resolution of absolute impartiality and to Our practical policy of well-doing.
We have never ceased to urge the belligerent peoples and Governments to become brothers once more, even although publicity has not been given to all which We have done to attain this most noble end...
First of all, the fundamental point should be that for the material force of arms should be substituted the moral force of law; hence a just agreement by all for the simultaneous and reciprocal reduction of armaments, according to rules and guarantees to be established to the degree necessary and sufficient for the maintenance of public order in each State; then, instead of armies, the institution of arbitration, with its lofty peacemaking function, according to the standards to be agreed upon and with sanctions to be decided against the State which might refuse to submit international questions to arbitration or to accept its decisions.
Once the supremacy of law has been established, let every obstacle to the ways of communication between the peoples be removed, by ensuring through rules to be fixed in similar fashion, the true freedom and common use of the seas. This would, on the one hand, remove many reasons for conflict and, on the other, would open new sources of prosperity and progress to all...
With regard to territorial questions, such as those disputed between Italy and Austria, and between Germany and France, there is ground for hope that in consideration of the immense advantages of a lasting peace with disarmament, the conflicting parties will examine them in a conciliatory frame of mind, taking into account so far as it is just and practicable, as We have said previously, the aspirations of the peoples and co-ordinating, according to circumstances, particular interests with the general good of the great human society.
The same spirit of equity and justice should direct the examination of other territorial and political questions, notably those relating to Armenia, the Balkan States, and the territories composing the ancient Kingdom of Poland, for which especially its noble historical traditions and the sufferings which it has undergone, particularly during the present war, ought rightly to enlist the sympathies of the nations.
Such are the principal foundations upon which We believe the future reorganization of peoples should rest. They are of a kind which would make impossible the recurrence of such conflicts and would pave the way for a solution of the economic question, so important for the future and the material welfare of all the belligerent States...
First, note the engagement, the clear sense of his role in this, in what the papacy can bring to the table. It was a different conflict, of course, involving mostly European ground and nominally Christian societies. It was a clash of nations, not opposite civilizations.
Even though I really don't know much about this period or this papacy (book on order to learn more, though...), what struck me about this statement was that at this point in history, a Pope's role in calling for peace and suggesting terms would not be taken for granted, following, as it did, decades of anti-religious revolution, and a dramatic reduction in the temporal power of the papacy. "Who does he think he is?" would be a not-surprising response in this context, and it was, indeed, the response to Benedict's suggestions.
I am not sure what I am working to here, but what I'm trying to articulate are the questions I am discerning from comments and elsewhere, questions about to receive the statements of the Vatican on these matters, particularly as they relate to what I see has a real global threat from Islamist fascism and authoritarianism. The Pope's call for peace are not mindless or superficial, as some sneer every time he utters the word, it seems - they are what Popes should be calling for. The Love of Christ, the power of Gospel, is something mysteriously beyond and immersed within but not dependent on human affairs. A pope shouldn't call for a cease-fire? What's the alternative?
But there is something that seems missing in the context, and I think this is a reason that some are having a hard time taking what is being said from the Vatican with the seriousness it deserves. For whatever reason, only part of the big picture is being painted - there are reasons for the violence and terrorism that stand in oppoosition to the Gospel on every level.
So when people struggle with this, I think what they are saying is this: This is not a doctrinal issue, but we know we should still be taking the Pope seriously on this, and we want to. He has a perspective none of us as individuals have, and in his attention to global, rather than nationalistic, priorities, he teaches and challenges us. But in the statements, we don't hear the foundations of the weight of the present threats and conflicts addressed, some of which concerns fundamental human rights of freedom and justice. So how can we receive this as a prudential judgment we should take seriously if we don't hear all of the elements of the situation addressed?
Is that correct? Expand on this, if you like. Please try to keep the conversation helpful, if you can. I'm sure my own post will be amended as the day wears on.
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
Comments
Amy, prayers for your son as he travels. Thank God this terrorist plan was thwarted in time.
I am thinking the previous pope would have been a little better commenting on the world situation.
Posted by: pegofmar1 at Aug 10, 2006 11:06:59 AM
Dear Amy,
Prayers for your son's safe return to the States today.
You are right though that every one (world leaders, press, etc) is dancing around what is at stake: "There is no direct engagement with the fundamental issues: the commitment to cripple the West and impose the radical, fundamentalist Islamist ideal in its stead. A total contempt for freedom and the intrinsic value of human life. And the determination and will to do this, by any means necessary."
Our move from DC Metro had in part to do with the terrorist threat to that city --among other typical high-cost east coast living things.
God bless.
Posted by: Peggy at Aug 10, 2006 11:11:20 AM
I'm afraid you are not reading the seriousness of the actual state of affairs. It seems there is a loss of the personal understanding of what is going on in the Mideast. Andrea Kirk Assaf's http://andreakirkassaf.blogspot.com/ brings out the personal side of things quite well.
I am reminded of Pope Benedict's encyclical where he says that our neighbor is that person who needs help and that we are able to help.
It seems the onus of proof is upon those who see the obviously planned and quite disproportionate response of Israel to the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers as somehow justifiable on the basis of radical Islamic terrorism.
Posted by: Bill Haley at Aug 10, 2006 11:12:54 AM
I'm afraid you are not reading the seriousness of the actual state of affairs. It seems there is a loss of the personal understanding of what is going on in the Mideast. Andrea Kirk Assaf's http://andreakirkassaf.blogspot.com/ brings out the personal side of things quite well.
I am reminded of Pope Benedict's encyclical where he says that our neighbor is that person who needs help and that we are able to help.
It seems the onus of proof is upon those who see the obviously planned and quite disproportionate response of Israel to the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers as somehow justifiable on the basis of radical Islamic terrorism.
Posted by: Bill Haley at Aug 10, 2006 11:12:58 AM
You're right, Amy. This is why most Vatican statements come off as "platitudes."
Posted by: Precursor at Aug 10, 2006 11:17:42 AM
Also struggling for the right words here...
To whom does the Pope speak? To whom ought he speak? If the Church believes it is speaking for Christ (as Benedict XV in your excerpt appears to believe) then he must speak to "the world".
For Catholics and Christians this may be frustrating because non-Christians probably couldn't care less what he says. So when he calls for "Peace" it can seem as though he is effectively calling for one side (the West) to give up.
Sometimes you don't want "Buddha on the mountain" talking to you - you want a shepherd there in the fields with you.
Posted by: Anastasia at Aug 10, 2006 11:20:26 AM
Amy, this is a great post. You really expressed it well.
We can't dialogue with a radical jihadist who only wants the death of the West. Certainly they're a minority among Muslims. But the radicals come to the West, exploit our freedom and social welfare system for their own ends-- to destroy it. So a little old lady can't even bring a bottle of water onto the plane today.
Posted by: Sr. Lorraine at Aug 10, 2006 11:24:23 AM
Disproportionate? Southern Lebanon is a wholly owned subsidiary of a terrorist organization, about which the official Lebnese government either cannot or will not do anything, thus effectively abdicating any claim to sovereignty, the primary criterion of whihc is the ability to monopolize police and military force within the supposedly sovereign territory, and you have the gall, Mr. Haley, to call Israel's response disproportionate for trying to eliminate this terrorist group and return some level of sanity and security to the Middle East, for doing what the supposedly sovereign Lebanese government should itself be doing? Is Israel supposed to just sit complacently and allow terrorist acts to happen repeatedly without responding? Do you only like Jews when they agree to play the hapless victim, Mr. Haley?
As for the "Clash of Civilisations", the term is innaccurate in that the Islamists do not represent Civilisation, but it's opposite, Barbarism. Civilisation is unitary, not plural; cultures are plural. Thus, this is a clash not between "Civilisations", but a clash between Civilisation and Barbarism, a barbaric culture.
Posted by: Dennis at Aug 10, 2006 11:28:15 AM
Ah, thank you Amy this is very close to articulating my thoughts.
Posted by: Tracy at Aug 10, 2006 11:30:39 AM
Over the past few days, some of the political analysis behind the Vatican's position has begun to appear in more detail online. That is truly helpful.
Sandro Magister day before yesterday posted an article entitled "From Lebanon to Central Asia: The Rise of Shia Muslims". In it, he discussed recent publications about the Shiites and the reasons why their numbers are growing. He first mentions a book and a journal article by Vali Nasr, a professor at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. Nasr's article mentioned by Magister, from the journal Foreign Affairs, is available online, titled "When the Shiites Rise".
According to Magister, the Vatican's foreign policy in the Middle East more closely follows Nasr's views, in contrast with current U.S. foreign policy. Magister also provides the text of an editorial on the subject by Khaled Fouad Allam, originally published in La Republica.
Also, National Catholic Reporter, John L. Allen, Jr. has a short article already posted an article, titled "Top Vatican Diplomat, U.S. Bishops' Spokesman Criticize U.S. Lebanon Policy", as well as a more lengthy interview with Bishop Thomas Wenski, who is the chair on international policy for the U.S. Bishops' Council.
Posted by: Teresa Polk at Aug 10, 2006 11:30:47 AM
I agree with those who are putting this down as a clash of civilizations. I realize this is a simplistic statement and that there are countless other issues involved in this clash. While diplomats pussy foot around and refuse to call anything black or white innocent people die. Moderate Muslims who also will lose in this clash of civilizations are not speaking out as they should for a variety of reasons. Quite frankly most of the problems in the Arab and Muslim worlds cannot truly be blamed on the West. Yes the West's imperialism can be blamed for some of it but not for most of it. I think a lot of the Islamic worlds' problems are homegrown. Blaming the West makes a convenient scapegoat for interior corruption and rot that is not being taken care of at home. Until those problems get addressed the West, and most especially the US (with its often misguided foreign policy) will be the whipping boy and things for everyone throughout the world will no matter what their culture or religion will suffer needlessly because of this. Meanwhile there will definitely be prayers for your son and others flying to the US today.
Posted by: thomps at Aug 10, 2006 11:36:32 AM
Thanks to Amy for the timely post. Before I offer my thoughts, let my explain my perspective.
I am a Franciscan grad and a grad of Ave Maria School of Law. In addition to my formal education, I am also have a strong personal interest in Church teaching and routinely study it and enjoy debating the issues. I also apply Church teaching to every aspect of my life and consider myself thoroughly Catholic. My Catholicism influences all of my actions and I never take anything said by the Pope lightly or with a dismissive attitude. Nevertheless, and despite the Pope's recent comments, I believe that traditional Just War theory (as stated in the most recent Catechism) permits Israel to use force in self-defense.
Now, I'll specifically address some of Amy's comments.
"The Pope's call for peace are not mindless or superficial - they are what Popes should be calling for."
I fully agree. This is precisely what Popes should be doing, and we should all listen to the Pope when he makes these exhortations and we should pray for peace.
The problem for me is when his judgments address specific factual circumstances, and they don't appear to be supported either by the facts or by Just War theory.
Last week, Pope Benedict stated: "Our eyes are filled with the chilling images of people's bodies – especially children's – torn apart. I am thinking particularly of Qana in Lebanon," the pope said. "I want to repeat that nothing can justify the spilling of innocent blood, no matter which side does it."
This statement pretty much states that Israel's attack on Qana is unjustified and implies that civilian casualties may never be permitted. Now, Pope Benedict is entitled to his opinion, and it is certainly entitled to weight because his the Pope, but even he recognizes that there is room for "legitimate diversity of opinion" regarding the application of just war principles. See http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm
I disagree with the Holy Father's statement on Qana because I do not think it is supported by the facts (which suggest that Israel has not targeted innocent civilians) nor by Just War theory (which permits the deaths of civilians in war time so long as they are not intentionally targetted and so long as their deaths are part of a proportionate response).
My disagreement is "legitimate" because I am operating within the Just War framework offered by the Church. I am NOT rejecting those principles. Let me also state that it is highly frustrating to be accused of "Cafeteria Catholicism" and supporting a "neo-con" agenda, when every one of my decisions is first and foremost guided by Catholic moral principles.
I think Amy's post has largely gotten it right and I would encourage others to think twice before carelessly slinging accusations of being a "neo-con" (whatever that means) or a Cafeteria Catholic.
Posted by: Boethius at Aug 10, 2006 11:42:55 AM
Amy,
I think your statement that "in his attention to global, rather than nationalistic, priorities, he teaches and challenges us" gets to the heart of the matter. The challenge of being a Catholic (in the true meaning of the word) is to try to see the world through the lens of the faith, which means putting aside nationlist and other secular ideologies. How many American Catholics who support emperor Bush take time to consider how unpopular he is everywhere else in the world, including in the Catholic world? We must abandon Americo-centrism. In this context, I'm not sure Catholics from the broader Catholic world would have the same issues with the pope's statements as certain American Catholics do. Everything I've read from the "Bush wing" (here and elsewhere) suggests that many people simply cannot shake off the American worldview-- the tendency to see the world through the eyes of a military superpower, not a suffering underdog; the casual approach to violence in popular culture; the Calvinist-inspired approach to foreign policy, which can neatly divide the world into those favored by God, and the others; the loathing for a multinationlist perspective.
Posted by: Morning's Minion at Aug 10, 2006 11:43:03 AM
The statement you quoted from Benedict XV contains greater insight than a statement limited to platitudes about the evil of war and the need for peace. But that statement was directed to parties who were 1) nation states and who 2) were rationally self-interested and could be negotiated with.
Perhaps the dissatisfaction with Benedict XVIs recent statements is that they fail to take into account how different the current situation is from the great conflicts of the twentieth century. I was reading the 9/11 Commission Report this weekend and thinking about these very issues. This is what the report says in response to the question, what can we do to stop terrorist attacks?:
"To the second question, what America could do, al Qaeda's answer was that America should abandon the Middle East, convert to Islam, and end the immorality and godlessness of its society and culture: 'It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind.' If the United States did not comply, it would be at war with the Islamic nation, a nation that al Qaeda's leaders said 'desires death more than you desire life'" (quotations are from bin Laden's Letter to America).
Perhaps recent statements coming from the Vatican are still tailored to the nation state model of war and are not addressing the ideology which is at the heart of current conflicts.
Posted by: Brad C at Aug 10, 2006 11:43:32 AM
Amy, agreed.
What is the Pope supposed to say? Is a call for peace necessarily a declaration of one side of a political issue or another? In these international conflicts, the pontiff takes on the role of father, watching brother nations/people go to war.
Regardless of which side is "right," isn't peace the ultimate goal? Then again, if you are at war with your brother, and your brother has every intention to destroy you, if your father asks you to stop, is it prudent to back off and allow your disobedient brother to pummel you?
This is where "turn the other cheek" and the theologies/philosophies of self-defense and just war are seemingly in conflict. Perhaps an encyclical about terrorism would be useful.
Posted by: Mike at Aug 10, 2006 11:44:46 AM
Amy, I agree with what you said completely. There is a feeling of disconnect, which stems both from the poor catechises of how and what the Church says, but also because people are looking for advice on what to do. There is no adequate response on what we should do (either from the Church or the US government).
I do not think that the majority of people want to discuss that the whole issue is about Islam and what Islam is. Nobody in major power really wants to sit down and discuss Islam. The best response that I have seen has come from Car. Pell out of Australia who understands that to get out of this situation the Church needs to directly talk about Islam.
The Church, right now, needs to do 2 things. 1). Teach about Islam from the pulpit and not give platitudes about "we share one God" etc.
2). Start world wide conferences designed to come up with an approach that we as human beings can take towards those "radical" Islamists who want to kill everything that is not their brand of Islam.
Right now!
I have my ear to the ground all over the place on the net and there is a starting and growing opinion that the best solution would be to kill all Muslims who attack us or who spread such hate. This is a danger, a large danger, because I think that if America is attacked again in a big way, Americans will go mad with rage and the response will make the American vengeance against the Japanese in WWII seem reasonable.
I am not saying that B16 isn't providing leadership, but his thinking can be more advanced than what the common poorly catechized Catholic can take.
It is vastly important to pray for peace, but when peace doesn't come, what should we do????
Posted by: Lurker #59 at Aug 10, 2006 11:49:25 AM
Reading Benedict XV's statement, I got the impression he was treating WWI as a civil war within Christendom - a war between brothers cut from the same cloth and who believed the same things (roughly speaking).
We're now (for the last 1500 years) engaged in a war against death-loving barbarians from the outer wastes. If they can't enslave us, they're happy to slaughter us, men women and children. There can be no truce with them until they or we are gone.
To those who think the above paragraph can be applied equally well to us, you've lost your bearings. There is a difference between Christian civilization (good) and Islamic barbarity (evil). That's the realization I find missing in pronouncements from seemingly-clueless Vatican prelates. Civilization is worth defending against those who long to destroy it.
Folks say the barbarians are a minority within Islam. If so, it's time for the civilized majority of Muslims to do something about them before imperial America does something permanent about them.
Posted by: Bill White at Aug 10, 2006 11:51:18 AM
Dennis,
Spoken like a true Bushite! (ideological context-free ranting!).
Seriously, you seem not to understand the dynamic of Lebanese politics. You seek to "eliminate" Hezbollah. Think about what you are saying: the utter destruction of a militia that enjoys the overwhelming support of the Shia, has 14 members of parliament and runs two ministries (Lebanon is fully democractic, by the way).
Is Nasrallah a war criminal? Yes. Is he any better other leaders in Lebanon? Do you want to destroy Walid Jumblatt, who is considered a heroic statesman today, but was trying to ethnically cleanse Maronites from the Chouf mountains in the early 1980s? Should he be eliminated? How about Christian Samir Geagea, one of the most popular politicians today. Old Samir, in his Lebanese Forces days, was responsible for numerous murders of his opponents (including their families) and spent time in jail for this. Do you want to eliminate him too?
Posted by: Morning's Minion at Aug 10, 2006 11:52:05 AM
I think you've touched on something essential that is lacking in these dark and dangerous times: True leadership, whether religious or political. Where are the leaders who can rally a nation or a church or a culture? All around the world we find "leaders" who can't articulate a context, a moral goal, or a coherent strategy, much less communicate it.
It's helpful to read the Old Testament and realize that the Israelites historically have made choices that God has looked on with disfavor. God's People--whether Jews or Christians--don't always get it or get it right. Now is such a time, because I believe this conflict is sizing up as a clash of civilizations on a the grandest of scopes. Remember Abraham's two sons, Isaac and Ishmael?
Real leadership would help all of us understand what is at stake and rise to the challenges of these very, very difficult times.
In our home, we prayer that God should grant this nation and the world good and wise leaders.
Posted by: Elaine at Aug 10, 2006 11:55:22 AM
Given today's news, we could do worse that go back to Germain Grizes' 6 principles for dealing with terrorism he came up with after 9/11/2001. http://www.zenit.org/english/war/visualizza.phtml?sid=10599.
Quoting:
1) Terrorism carries out an intention to kill or injure people and/or to destroy or damage things of value in order to instill fear as a motive for desired behavior. Instilling fear so as to motivate desired behavior often is counterproductive, but doing so sometimes is good and even necessary. Yet even if instilling fear is appropriate, terrorism is a morally unacceptable means, just because terrorists intend (though not as their ultimate objective or goal) precisely to kill, injure, destroy and damage.
2) People have at times put an end to isolated individuals´ acts of terrorism by killing them. However, terrorism carried out by members of a widespread group for ideological ends that appeal to extremists in that group presents a far greater challenge. Any possible response is likely to have only limited success at best. Yet when a community undergoing terroristic attack deliberates about how to respond, anger and hatred induce the illusion that very violent responses are likely --and perhaps almost certain -- to succeed.
3) The use of force to prevent terrorism can be justifiable and morally required of those responsible for defending the community. Even deadly force may be used against those one reasonably expects will otherwise continue to pose a grave threat. But force, especially deadly force, must never be used to avenge past acts or as terrorism to prevent terrorism. Such uses of force, even against military forces and assets, are morally unacceptable.
4) Moreover, when stopping terrorism requires the use of force against the activities of terrorists or of people complicit in their terrorism, any foreseeable damage to innocents (that is, people not engaged in those activities) must be no more than what those using the force would think it fair to accept if the innocents were their own friendly associates.
5) Responses to terrorism that are morally unjustifiable also are foolish. They provoke greater and more widespread anger and hatred: seven other demons will take the place of the first, and small atomic bombs will be used instead of hijacked airliners.
6) Even when carried out within proper limits, deadly force against persons cannot be an adequate response to terrorism. A sound response must also include a very serious and sincere effort to improve relationships with less radical members of the group whose interests the terrorists are trying to promote by their bad means. That serious effort at reconciliation must be implemented by economic and political action designed to mitigate suffering and reduce hatred.
Posted by: Morning's Minion at Aug 10, 2006 11:55:23 AM
MM, try, just for one day, to heed Amy's advice about being helpful instead of being merely predictable.
Posted by: Rich Leonardi at Aug 10, 2006 11:57:27 AM
What we call terrorism is, I think, a festering abcess. We have to go a few decades (and maybe more) in history to the root of this abcess: for exemple, have a look at the way colonialist countries have behaved in islamic countries for centuries and the contempt we have too often shown for what has been a great civilization (in many fields: astronomy, algebra (an Arab word) medicine, philosophy, etc). Also, because I am old enough to remember, certain exemples of "terrorism" come to mind: Eamon de Valera and Sinn Fein, Jomo Kenyatta and the Mau Mau movement and others. They show that, when enough blood has been shed, the time for dialogue has come. The terrorists of yesterday may become the respected heads of State of tomorrow... Also, taking a hard look at the circumstances in which the State of Israel was founded and the way it was done might help understand the present situation...
Posted by: Douchka at Aug 10, 2006 11:57:58 AM
Lurker #59,
The Church, right now, needs to do 2 things. 1). Teach about Islam from the pulpit and not give platitudes about "we share one God" etc.
Great post. I don't know how many times (including Pope Benedict) I have heard the nonsense about how we share "one God." Monotheism is not a predictor of similarity of thought in religion. Just look at the ways Muslims live their lives and even more importantly, READ THE KORAN. That should dissuade the ignorant from assuming that simply because Christians and Muslims both proclaim themselves monotheists, they share a common outlook.
Posted by: Janice at Aug 10, 2006 12:00:25 PM
Morning's minion,
Doesn't "true meaning of the word Catholic" entail always voting for the Democratic candidate in your mind?
Posted by: Ken at Aug 10, 2006 12:04:15 PM
Godspeed, in this case rather literally, to you son.
I can't perfectly express what I'm thinking here either, in response to your post, and I can't divorce myself completely from my ideological filters. But yes, part of my own dissatisfaction with papal and Vatican statements stems from what seems to be a failure to recognize or somehow factor in what I and others regard as an existential threat to the West (defined rather broadly). I want to hear Benedict and others say Yes, it is true that Al Qaeda and its brothers-in-terror wish to kill, subdue or convert everyone on the planet. Yes, there is a fundamental difference between parties like Hezbollah who aim to kill Jews, and countries like Israel whose aim is not to be killed. Etc. etc. I do not doubt that Benedict and others have said this at some point, but it's certainly not a central part of their message and it needs to be--in my opinion--before reality can set in and help direct action, the action of a Church necessarily being different than the action of a nation or anti-Islamofascist alliance.
And, given my own ideological outlook, which of course like everyone else I believe is based purely on reality, if the institutional Church fully accepted the reality of Islamofascism, it would be unable to say for example that Israel and Hezbollah should immediately accept a ceasefire. In other words, I could understand a Church not calling for war, but cannot fully understand a Church calling for action that objectively aids terrorists. Nor do they don't only want to kill Jews and Americans and so on--their sick dream quite specifically includes eradicating Christianity.
When I hear statements about the need for all parties to lay down arms or seek greater understanding, I'm thinking mainly that Islamofascism is like cancer, and calling for peace and mutual understanding with cancer has about as much chance as succeeding in the world as it does with someone who has leukemia.
It might be interesting to see how Benedict and others really believe this is going to play out. If they said something radical like hundreds of thousands of us are going to have to die under the Islamofascist sword before the Holy Spirit turns the tide through Christian conversion, that might be something I could understand, even though I'd have a hard time accepting it and would most likely fail, through lack of zeal or lack of faith. But it could make sense in a radical Christian context. But instead, I see the (sorry) conventional statements about the need for peace, and how we all must understand each other, and in my mind these are mere and customary blunders as Islamosfascists think they understand us quite well, and through that understanding believe they are required to convert us, subdue us, or murder us.
Posted by: Christopher Fotos at Aug 10, 2006 12:06:27 PM



















