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October 19, 2006
Old/Classical/Tridentine Mass/Rite Roundup
I'm going to be working on that tip sheet. Part of it will have to be left open until we actually, you know...have a document. It occurred to me that the Pope will probably have a preferred way of referring to "it" in the document, which will help.
Anyway, here's some links:
Excellency, the first public action of your Secretaryship for the Congregation of Divine Worship was a conference held on the occasion of the presentation of a book by Uwe-Michael Lang, Oratorian of German origin and resident in London, Turning toward the Lord (Cantagalli, Siena 2006, pp. 150, euro 14.90), which came out on 27 April under the auspices of the Patristic Institute of Augustine of Rome. The volume, issued in German in 2003, contains a preface by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, published for the first time in Italian sul numero of March 2004 of 30Giorni. How did you come upon this book?
RANJITH: I had already read this book and the beautiful preface by then-Cardinal Ratzinger. So when I received the invitation, I immediately accepted. Because it was the occasion for give birth to a very positive debate in the Church. One speaks much of the participation of the faithful in the liturgy. But do the faithful participate more if the priest celebrates facing the people (versus populum) or if he celebrates facing the altar (verso l'altare); it may be that in this case the people detach (si distragga). And is it true participation when, at the sign of peace, in the church one creates a great confusion when some priests sometimes go to give their salutations all the way to the last pew? Does this speak of actuosa participatio, greatly desired by the Second Vatican Council, or simply of a great distraction that helps not at all to follow with devotion the succeeding moments of the Mass - such that at times one forgets even to declaim the Agnus Dei... I repeat, the book by Father Lang was, and is, an extremely useful provocation, right from the introduction, in which Cardinal Ratzinger remembers that the Council never asked to abolish Latin or to revolutionize the direction of liturgical prayer...
John Allen interviewsViatorian Fr. Mark Francis, superior general of the Clerics of St. Viator:
[he]spelled out at least seven questions that occur to him in an Oct. 17 interview with NCR:
• Aside from the Mass itself, will priests also be expected to offer other sacraments according to the pre-Vatican II rites, such as funerals, weddings, and baptisms? If many priests lack familiarity with the older Mass, even fewer would feel at ease with more “occasional” sacraments;
• Will liturgical preparation in seminaries need to be revised? “If there is going to be a universal indult, then seminaries would feel honor-bound to offer courses to prepare priests to celebrate both rites,” Francis said.
• What about church architecture? “It’s difficult to celebrate the Tridentine rite in a Vatican II space,” Francis said. “Will we have to move the altars back and forth? Will we have to install altar rails?”
• Assuming the liberalization applies to the 1962 version of the Roman Missal, the last before Vatican II, where will people find it? It would have to be reprinted and distributed quickly, Francis said – joking that in the end, the 1962 Missal might make the rounds more quickly than the new English translation of the post-Vatican II Mass, a project that has been in the works for the better part of a decade.
• Will the normal expectation be for celebration of the “low Mass” according to the older rite, or the far more complex “high Mass?” If the latter, then various other ministers and a choir conversant in older musical scores, at a minimum, would be required, and that could be problematic in many places.
• Will some of the older disciplines that surrounded the pre-Vatican II rite be restored, such as Benediction after Mass, which is actually forbidden under current liturgical law? In some cases, the older Mass was celebrated in the presence of the exposed sacrament, also currently prohibited. How will such canonical conflicts be sorted out?
• Finally, if the church allows traditionalists attached to the old Mass to hold onto their customs despite official changes in policy, what would prevent more liberal Catholics, for example, who oppose the new, more “Roman” English translation of the post-Vatican II Mass from requesting permission to use the previous English version? “Are we creating a procedural monster?” Francis asks.
When presented with evidence that his priests were raping children, Catholic bishop Tod D. Brown did what most of his predecessors in the Diocese of Orange had done before him: nothing.
But when it comes to a bunch of septuagenarians attending the Mass in Latin, Brown is suddenly George W. Bush engaged in a war on terror.
Arellano has done intense, unrelenting work for the OCWeekly over the past years, exposing the corruption in the OCDiocese. He's a fairly bitter ex-Catholic, and this little piece has some points that are incorrect and is, once again, confusing about the the status of the independent chapel, which he constantly calls "Help of Christians" instead of "Our Lady, Help of Christians." It's an odd shorthand.
But there it is - and what's interesting is that the article is discussed over at Roman Catholic Blog and the first commentor is Arelleno himself.
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
Comments
Interesting...I'm certainly rooting for the restoration of the Latin Mass- I hate it when my mother always corrupts the Eucharist by touching it before she receives it...oh well...
Posted by: crusader88 at Oct 19, 2006 10:25:58 AM
Jesus so despised our corrupting flesh that he died on the cross that we might have eternal life with glorified BODIES. Oh well.
Posted by: Dan Crawford at Oct 19, 2006 10:38:48 AM
in the interests of constructive dialogue, I will refrain from the many snarky comments I could direct to the worry of the "procedural nightmare" of the implementation of the hoped for motu proprio. instead, i would just point out that the problems feared really are only natural at the beginning of such an implementation. after six months of celebrating these TLMs, the congregation and the celebrant priests will have a good handle on it.
If only as much "pastoral" sensitivity at the chaos caused by liturgical change had prevailed in 1969...
Posted by: tim at Oct 19, 2006 10:44:28 AM
I think John Allen's framing of this issue as primarily a concession to traditionalists, rather than a more substantive theological statement by the Holy Father about liturgy and tradition may spell doom for a more helpful discussion of the matter. He seems to be buying into the comments of the curial bureaucracy. How much weight should those be given? Are these the same folks that have been impeding Pope Benedict's "agenda" for the last year and a half?
Posted by: JA at Oct 19, 2006 10:46:35 AM
With regard to JA's comments:
I totally agree. John Allen missed the boat on this because his sources are primarily the bureaucrats in the Curia. Allen admitted that these people (his sources in the CDW) learned about document from the newspapers!? They were kept completely out of the loop. But then he goes on to give credence to their opinions concerning the why of the document. At best these people are giving their best guess, but more than likely they are spinning the document. I like Allen very much, but I wonder if his reporting will suffer with the new pontificate. This Pope is willing to bypass the bureaucrats on important issues, if Allen primarily relies on them, this could be just the first of what could be many stories that Allen will be scooped on.
Posted by: Christopher Sarsfield at Oct 19, 2006 11:11:46 AM
There's no complexity of implementation - low mass, high mass, whatever. Our parish, like many others, was able to do it quite easily.
I don't recall these concerns preventing the summary authoritarian introduction of radical liturgical change for everyone between 1964 and 1975.
As to "illegality;" where has Fr. Francis been over the last 40 years? Has he inquired, for example into the practices of the Neocathecumenal Way?
Posted by: stuart chessman at Oct 19, 2006 11:15:11 AM
• What about church architecture? “It’s difficult to celebrate the Tridentine rite in a Vatican II space,” Francis said. “Will we have to move the altars back and forth? Will we have to install altar rails?”
This seems to be less a problem that it seems. The tridentine rite permits celebrations versus populum, so in most places, one could do it, though it would not necessarily be easy to do prayers at the foot of the altar. Perhaps, if impossible, one could do them behind the altar, or even (as they were once done) in the sacristy before mass. Why couldn't one have a Tridentine mass at the LA Cathedral? That would indeed be an interesting sight - and a worthwhile exercise to make certain points.
And, while I am all in favor of any old excuse to restore altar rails in any church, why would altar rails be strictly necessary? Do the rubrics of the 1962 missal itself require kneeling or is that requirement found in old instructions of the Sacred Congregation of Rites? And, if one has to kneel, couldn't one set up a kneeler or two up front?
Logistically, I suspect that the Tridentine rite can be done in most any modern churches without much difficulty or alteration.
Posted by: Patrick Rothwell at Oct 19, 2006 11:18:53 AM
At the Bishop's chapel in Green Bay where the TLM is celebrated in our diocese, there are no altar rails. The folks simply kneel in a line upon the step.
Posted by: M.Z. Forrest at Oct 19, 2006 11:40:07 AM
The only thing I can think of that would be problematic is the east-facing thing. (And quite frankly, if people have been building churches that don't face east, that's lame anyway. Besides, nobody on the progressive seems to have a problem with moving altars about for other design reasons.)
Any church that's pulled the altar out into the center of church and provided seating in the round has nothing preventing them from celebrating facing east. Beyond that, there's no reason why side altars can't come back into use, particularly if the Tridentine Masses are going to have such a small attendance as the naysayers predict. So, no problem at all, there.
Re: corruption?
If that were true, the touch of one's tongue would "corrupt" the Host too, and nobody could receive at all. Besides, it's not as if any evil whatsoever could "corrupt" Jesus Christ. Silly even to imply it.
Obviously, the commenter was trying to make some sort of nasty snark, but I have no idea what. If one must make insults, it's best one keeps them clear and to the point. But better yet, be nice instead.
Posted by: Maureen at Oct 19, 2006 11:51:29 AM
"Any church that's pulled the altar out into the center of church and provided seating in the round has nothing preventing them from celebrating facing east."
My parish built a church "in the round" facing east. Its layout is approxmately thus:
West/Tabernacle|Choir/Musicians|Altar|Baptismal font|East
There is no parishoner seating facing the altar from the east side. Does this then qualify as "ad orientem"? Only the choir or musicians are seated facing east with the priest.
Posted by: Kevin Jones at Oct 19, 2006 12:41:30 PM
Father Francis forgets that all the instructions called for was that the altar be free-standing, i.e., not attached to the wall, so that the priest could walk around it when incensing it. If that had been done, there would be no need of moving any altar back and forth.
With regard to the prayers at the foot of the altar, I don't think that would be a problem either. Most, if not all, altars have steps leading up to them. The priest walks up the steps and around to kiss the altar and begin the celebration. So what's to prevent him from saying the prayers at the foot of the altar and then proceeding up the steps and around to kiss it? That would make perfect sense.
And like Patrick, I'm all for restoring altar rails; but as he says, there's no real necessity for that. Setting up a couple of kneelers would work. I saw this done very effectively in a church in Madrid a couple of years ago. I remember being very inspired by the devotion of the priest who said the Mass without changing anything at all (a far cry from what one is unfortunately used to in a lot of places) and by the orderly and devout manner in which the people went up to receive communion...and there were a lot of them!
Posted by: Mila at Oct 19, 2006 1:00:38 PM
“Will we have to move the altars back and forth? Will we have to install altar rails?”
I'd be happy with both but, actually, most free-standing altars will accomodate the celebrant facing either way.
And in the last two churches where I've attended an indult Mass, the front row of pews was reserved for Holy Communion. The chair rail -- is that what it's called -- that's usually standing in front of a front pew, serves quite well as a communion rail.
Assuming the liberalization applies to the 1962 version of the Roman Missal, the last before Vatican II, where will people find it? It would have to be reprinted and distributed quickly, Francis said
Probably Fr. Francis is unaware that right now is a golden age for the publication of traditional Latin-English missals. The last couple of years have seen the publication of he first two complete new Latin-English daily missals -- for the TLM according to the current (1962) rubrics -- to be published in the 40 years since Vatican II. And a number of the older TLM missals have been reprinted recently. For all I know, there may be enough traditional Latin missal to meet foreseeable demand already sitting on warehouse shelves. (Perhaps these folks anticipated what's coming.)
If the latter, then various other ministers and a choir conversant in older musical scores, at a minimum, would be required, and that could be problematic in many places.
Again, this has never been a problem in my experience with several indult Masses. People always come forth from the congregation who are able to handle Gregorian chant and Latin music. It's not like rocket science.
Similarly with all the other alleged problems. They're not. Where there's a will there's a way, etc.
“Are we creating a procedural monster?” Francis asks."
Can't resist the observation that he apparently hopes so. That seems to be the quickly developing party line.
Posted by: Henry at Oct 19, 2006 1:22:27 PM
I have lived to see the collapse of the Soviet empire. I may see the reintroduction of the Classical Roman Rite (CRR). God is certainly Good.
Further more, I believe the renewal of the CRR also marks the beginning of the revival of wetern culture. I will not see [from this side anyway] how it might end but that is not that important. God is Good and he will make sure that it will end well.
Posted by: John at Oct 19, 2006 1:36:22 PM
The Viatorian found more "straw men" than I thought possible.
Ah, well.
Posted by: dad29 at Oct 19, 2006 2:20:45 PM
My hope is that the low mass will be offered at least as often as the high. Since JPII's indult every Tridentine mass I have attended has been a high mass. I am not sure why. Perhaps because these decisions are typically driven by liturgists and music directors, who naturally have a tendency toward--I don't mean this to sound critical--liturgical showmanship. There seems to be a certain sense that if we are going to have one indult mass in the diocese to preserve the tradition than we might as well go the whole nine yards.
That's fine. For some people getting the music right and all that sort of thing really is essential to worship. The do pray the mass better when they sing the mass or listen to it being sung.
But in my own experience--I attended a non-schismatic Tridentine rite church until I was in my 20s--nothing is so conducive to praying the mass as the low version of the tridentine rite without the distractions of choir or the need to respond. I loved following the silent canon in English, precisely because I found that I was not "following" it but praying it. I have never been so deeply involved in the mass as when I might have appeared not to be participating at all.
This is not a dogmatic or even normative point; I speak only from my own experience. But there must be others for whom neither recitation nor singing is the deepest form of prayer and who during the Eucharist want to go as deep as they can.
On Saturday mornings I pray the Liturgy of the hours in a small group; evrything is recited aloud. The rest of the week I do it on my own, silently. Both are good and good for me and both are prayer. But the experiences are profoundly different and there is no question that my silent recitation is more meditative and goes deeper.
I can't help feeling that The New Liturgical Movement et al want me to sign me up to help do the liturgy right, when all I really want to do is pray. Not sing, not recite, not even be sung to, just pray.
Posted by: Richard Vigilante at Oct 19, 2006 7:09:52 PM
Noticing some strains at least to the liturgical left in the Roman Catholic Church "is that the ancient- 3rd century C. C. liturgy called Tridentine because of it's codification at the Council of Trent) is ONLY desired by old folks. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM every Tridentine Mass high & Low I have had the PRIVILEDGE of attending is usually packed to the rafters and that with congregations averaging 20 to 45 yr olds usually with families. In the end God see's no age, only souls.This experience with age attendance at the Latin, classic Mass has been experienced in both Indult, Independant-SSPX, and sedevacantist congregations--dare I use the dirty word.Orthodox-Traditionalist Catholic Seminaries, Convents, monasteries and Abbeys of all traditionalist houses have ONE problem only, where in God's name do we put them all, most are running out of room to accomadate new vocations. Yup--Traditional (Latin) Catholics are all old folks. Shalom-John
Posted by: John at Dec 14, 2006 10:13:31 AM



















