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November 19, 2006
An interview that will go down in infamy
Well, there's been worse. But the Bishop Kate Schori interview in the NYTimes Magazine is gaining fast. Especially this part.
How many members of the Episcopal Church are there in this country?
About 2.2 million. It used to be larger percentagewise, but Episcopalians tend to be better-educated and tend to reproduce at lower rates than some other denominations. Roman Catholics and Mormons both have theological reasons for producing lots of children.
Episcopalians aren’t interested in replenishing their ranks by having children?
No. It’s probably the opposite. We encourage people to pay attention to the stewardship of the earth and not use more than their portion.
Well, I would respond to this but I'm afraid I'm going to occupied for the next few hours practicing reading the next Henry and Mudge book before I attempt to read it to my 5-year old. 'Cause it's really hard, you know. Oh, and then I'm going to go out and throw my 5th child's dirty diapers in the St. Joseph River. 'Cause I'm a Catholic.
Let's see. Catholics are dumber than a bag of Frank Griswold sermons and couldn't care less what happens to the earth. Those are the only reasons why they're a billion and change and our numbers are dropping like a brick. That'll go over well when Dr. Williams drops in on the Pope next week.
I guess this can be read charitably as a creative way to spin the Episcopal Church's dwindling ranks: "Our denomination is shrinking because we're better educated than those baby-crazy Catholics and Mormons! In fact, God wants us to shrink -- it's called stewardship!"
Of course, you put Flannery O'Connor on something, I'm there.
Banner or icon anyone?
(Comments open in the AM, after we take my car to the shop. If we can find our way back. If only the Pope were here to tell us what to do!)
Update: From Reader Tom:
As noted above, I sent a letter to Bishop Schori at 10:00am (EST), and recived a fairly lengthy and fairly complete response from Robert Goodfellow, "communications aide" who said that he was writing on the bishop's behalf.
Please write to them and ask for a reponse. Let's let as least Robert Goodfellow know how we feel.
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
Comments
For God's sake. What was she thinking?
Posted by: Richard at Nov 20, 2006 9:32:56 AM
Bishop Jefferts Schori’s interviews always feature softball (or even NERF-ball) questions. Here are some questions I would like to see a reporter ask her (I can dream can’t I...)
In your papers and press releases prior to your election as Presiding Bishop, you made a big point of “el buen Samaritano” and your deanship of the “Good Samaritan School of Theology.” Yet, you have admitted both of these were inflated terms. They have also disappeared from any post-election materials (such as the Episcopal page ‘Who is the Presiding Bishop?’). Why did you lie on your resume?
Why were you elected? On paper, even with your inflated claims, you were clearly the least qualified candidate. Were you elected solely because of your gender?
During your tenure as Bishop of Nevada, you used the Kairos Prison Ministry materials inappropriately. This organization considers the breaches significant enough that they are suing the Nevada Diocese for copyright violations. Would you care to comment?
The Kairos organization feels that their approach of gender-specific ministers for prison populations is both sound Biblically and practically? Would you care to comment.
What happened to “el buen Samaritano?”
Reporters seem to be very impressed by your experience as an oceanographer and as a pilot. Why are these relevant?
During you tenure as Bishop of Nevada, how much did the diocese grow? In that same period how much did the state of Nevada grow? Why do you think the Episcopal percentage is so much lower?
Jesus said, “No one comes to the father except through me.” What does that mean?
The Episcopal Church has been losing members for many years, why?
Do you really think, as you said in a New York Times Magazine interview, that the conservatives (such as Catholics) are “outbreeding” the Episcopalians?
Is it not possible that the liberal social gospel and ordination and promotion of gay ministers bears some responsibility for the membership loss?
In recent memory, two ministers confessed to breaking their wedding vows, one left his marriage and one did not. Why has one been made an Episcopal bishop and the other has resigned his position in disgrace. Compare and contrast - Vicki Gene Robinson’s marital breakup and Ted Haggard’s fall.
You state in the New York Times Magazine interview that we “are all hypocrites.” Isn’t the Christian belief that “we are all sinners?”
What is sin?
The Episcopal Church in America was at one time named the Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States. With this Protestant background, how is “deeds-based evangelism” consistent with the Protestant principle of “faith alone?”
Why was one of your first acts as Presiding Bishop the formation of a committee to make sure property does not leave the TEC when parishioners leave the TEC?
Why does all material related to the issue of gay sexuality refuse to include references to Dr. Gagnon’s work. For example, the study guide prepared by the association of Episcopal Seminary Librarians has expressly excluded Gagnon’s work. This is so, even though Biblical scholars consider it a masterful treatment of the Biblical issues.
If the Millennium Development Goals are so important, why is the TEC allocating only seven-tenths of one percent of its budget to them?
If the MDGs are a sign of our deeds-based evangelism, how do you justify the buildings, salaries, and budget of the TEC bureaucracy?
Why have you singled out eight dioceses as “problem dioceses?” What exactly is the problem?
Has the Dennis Canon ever been tested and upheld in a court of law?
You and your supporters often criticize the African Bishops for turning a blind eye to polygamy. Where is the evidence of this?
You have an “honorary” doctorate from CDSP. The African Bishops, as a group, have a significant number of earned doctorates from major Western theological schools. Why should we listen to your theology rather than theirs?
Why is the Episcopal Church in Nigeria one of the fastest growing churches anywhere on earth?
Who is Jesus?
In what way is threatening churches consistent with deeds-based evangelism?
Two churches in Virginia have just proposed leaving the TEC. Their Average Sunday Attendance exceeds that of the entire Nevada Diocese. Shouldn’t their concerns be taken seriously?
In your New York Times interview, you discuss the relative childlessness of Episcopalians in terms of stewardship of the Earth’s resources. In light of this stewardship, what percentage of the TEC budget could be reduces if the offices at 815 were moved to say, Topeka or Omaha? In this day of instant communications and the Internet, surely a less expensive and wasteful location could be found for the headquarters of such an environmentally responsible church.
Why should I be Episcopalian rather than sleep in on Sunday morning?
I understand your mother became an Orthodox Christian in the 1970’s. What was that like?
You have criticised some for placing God in a “little box.” Jesus speaks of the “eye of the needle” and the “narrow way.” Compare and contrast your and Jesus’ viewpoints.
Why has the outreach to LGBT individuals been such a failure in terms of growing the Episcopal Church?
A significant portion of Christianity (Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy) does not allow women to be priests. What is your response to this fact?
At your investiture, I noticed that none of the major celebrants nor you had any cross symbols on their vestments. Was this intentional?
What is the Resurrection?
Posted by: Terry at Nov 20, 2006 9:34:27 AM
From the proposed Episcopalian version of Psalm 23:5
"Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou annointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Forgive me for having enemies and for using more than my portion; I am better educated than the greedy breeders who are hate-filled and need my enlightened leadership."
Posted by: Sidney at Nov 20, 2006 9:36:13 AM
Wow.
I'm not suprised that Ms. Schori *thinks* that. I am surprised that she would *say* that in a public forum. For a woman who boasts about how well educated she (and her church) is, she is pretty ignorant about how to discuss a sensitive issue in a public setting without offending other religions. What she says is true, after all - the ECUSA has a low birthrate, and its demographics have a lot to do with that. Schori could have made this point without bringing Catholics and Mormons into it and slamming us as uneducated, irresponsible, breeding machines.
Posted by: AJP at Nov 20, 2006 9:50:37 AM
"If only the Pope were here to tell us what to do!"
Oh, Amy. I got my receiver implanted in a filling in my tooth when I joined Opus Dei. I can't believe you haven't gotten yours yet!
That's actually why some Protestant wymyn get IUDs. It's not birth control--it blocks the shortwave radio signals from the Vatican.
Peace,
Brian
Posted by: JB the (former) Kairos Guy at Nov 20, 2006 10:01:19 AM
Ms. Schori should read the warning bells then in her faith and see that as a sign of things to come. The Episcopals are dying off and the Catholics are increasing, if we're babymaking machines in her eyes. Doesn't the Bible tell us to go out and populate the Earth? I guess she forgot that part.
Posted by: DK at Nov 20, 2006 10:16:14 AM
"Suffer not the little children to come unto me; for behold, their tiny mouths ravage the earth, they deprive their elders of their proper portion. Today they cry for bread and pluck the lilies of the field; will they not tomorrow cry for even more bread, and even for the flesh of beef and fowl, fattened in the fields where once grew old-growth forests? Will not their donkeys and chariots clog the roads, depriving you of your rightful parking spots? Behold, they will swarm over the land like locusts, consuming resources, and their appetites will never be satisfied. Follow not the examples of the ignorant, and admit children into your house only with care.
"Pity the poor, but heap scorn upon the ignorant. Yea, in the greatest newspaper in the land, mock the uneducated and the selfish. For lo, the poor you will have always with you as long as they obstinately continue to bear children; and as the factory produces iPods and the sturgeon produces roe, so do the graduates of second-rate colleges and the other illiterates produce lots of children.
"Blessed are the educated."
Posted by: Peony Moss at Nov 20, 2006 10:19:47 AM
There's a contact e-mail form at episcopal church usa presiding bishop office. I just sent her a letter. Why don't a few others?
Posted by: Tom Ryan at Nov 20, 2006 10:20:21 AM
forgot to add:write bishop Schori at www.episcopalchurch.org (at homepage there's a link to presiding bishop, but spend a moment browsing other sections....)
Posted by: Tom Ryan at Nov 20, 2006 10:24:03 AM
Bishop Schori's remark that, "Episcopalians tend to be better-educated and tend to reproduce at lower rates than . . . Roman Catholics and Mormons (who) have theological reasons for producing lots of children" betrays an intellectual elitism and snobbery that are quite breathtaking.
Her remark implies that the Catholic and Mormon "theological reasons" for having large families spring not from any authentic understanding of God's word that happens to differ from her own, but from sheer ignorance!
Such an attitude of arrogance and superiority toward one's fellow Christians can hardly arise from anything in keeping with the spirit of the Gospel.
I am led to wonder whether similarly arrogant and elitist notions inform other of the Bishop's views, and perhaps, even those of any number of members of her sect.
Posted by: Marion (Mael Muire) at Nov 20, 2006 10:25:16 AM
On behalf of many, many Episcopalians I apologize for the words of my highly educated yet maleducata presiding bishop. She's puts it out there for all to see the poor state of theology in our church.
P.S. Anti-Catholic bigotry is very widespread in my church
Posted by: Child friendly over-educated Episcopal priest breeder at Nov 20, 2006 10:34:51 AM
Absolutely amazing! And terribly sad :(
This woman's comments immediately bring to mind the theories of Ms. Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood and a member of the American Nazi Party, that Northern Europeans are smarter than Southern Europeans (and of course those in America descended from their respective group :( ) That Catholics overpopulate because the Catholic laity are far less educated. This is because the Catholic 'brains' become celibate clergy and religious [Sanger was baptized as an infant as a Catholic as well :( )
Thanks Amy for the leads to those "Anglican blogs" (I don't think I will call them Episcopalian at this point) I was encouraged to find so many of our Anglican brothers and sisters standing firm in the Apostolic Faith as well as in solidarity with 'us'. One stated they feared seeing what some might say on this blog (being a primarily Catholic blog). To the Anglicans in the USA let us extend our hands in friendship, growing communion and our prayers for you at this difficult time.
For any Catholics out there still thinking that we should become far more 'progressive' and be transformed by the present culture------think it over please and look around at what is really going on.
Posted by: Father Elijah at Nov 20, 2006 10:41:49 AM
Thank you, dear "Child friendly over-educated Episcopal priest breeder" for your kind apology.
I love it that you used maleducada. Such an excellent word that conveys so much, isn't it?
As for your observation that "Anti-Catholic bigotry is very widespread in my church", as a Catholic, I can only reply, "tell me something I didn't already know!"
Posted by: Marion (Mael Muire) at Nov 20, 2006 10:49:25 AM
In charity, I will assume that she was making a point in an unclear way. I think that she was trying to say that (a)Epicopalians are well-educated, and (b)lacking a theology that encourages having lots of children, they are free to give priority to their well-educated environmental concerns and refrain from having children.
She should have said, "Catholics and Mormons have a theology that encourages them to have lots of children. We do not have that theology, and being well-educated are very concerned with environmental stewardship. For that reason, we, unlike the well-educated-but-slaves-to-theology-Catholics- and-Mormons, are free to give those concerns top priority and not have children."
See, much less offensive.
Posted by: Kelly at Nov 20, 2006 10:53:30 AM
When I attended a fundraiser brunch for the Pregnancy Care Center in Ft. Pierce FL on Saturday, I had a great conversation with a gentle, soft-spoken Episcopal woman seated beside me. I found out later, from the director of the PCC, that Grace is a wonderfully successful sidewalk counselor at the abortion mill, which is directly across from the PCC. Grace said she feels like the crewman who gave testimony after the sinking of the Titanic.
"When did you leave the ship?"
"I didn't."
"But your here. You must have left the ship?"
"I never left the ship! The ship left me."
Since one of our daughters now attends an Episcopal Church in Las Vegas, I asked Grace what translation of the Bible they use. She told me they use several, but she uses the Jerusalem Bible. I know Mother Angelica loves this non-inclusive translation and was happy that we have that link with rank-and-file faithful Episcopalians - but it kind of confused me, as I thought Episcopalians, like other Protestants, reject 7 books of the Bible and probably used some sort of ham-handed translation of the King James Version. Can any of you Episcopalians enlighten me on that?? Grace said that Episcopalians consider the Pope as the Bishop of Rome and also said the early Sunday service should be traditional - so they're fighting that liturgical battle, too. Grace isn't angry only saddened by what is happening in her Church.
Posted by: Judy at Nov 20, 2006 10:55:07 AM
Episcopalians aren’t interested in replenishing their ranks by having children?
No. It’s probably the opposite. We encourage people to pay attention to the stewardship of the earth and not use more than their portion.
And the third man buried his talents in the ground... So when the master came back, he praised the man, saying, "Not only did he not risk anything that I gave him, he showed good stewardship of the earth and did not use more than his portion!"
Posted by: Maureen at Nov 20, 2006 11:00:30 AM
Where, o where is Mister Colbert when we need him??
Posted by: marco frisbee at Nov 20, 2006 11:10:39 AM
Dear Kelly,
Your point is well taken, but the hypothesis that the bishop intended to convey simply "well-educated" to describe members of her sect fails in my view, I'm afraid, for the fact remains that her Excellency selected the comparative "better-educated."
If one takes the trouble to say "better. . . ", there is a "than" implied, as well, whether spoken or unspoken.
As in "better-educated" than those backward other individuals whom we are so much better educated than.
Maleducada, indeed!
Posted by: Marion (Mael Muire) at Nov 20, 2006 11:11:55 AM
"Child friendly over-educated Episcopal priest breeder": no apology necessary; Schori's remark reflects far more of herself than anyone else as she is telling her story. The only reaction is to add her to prayer and that is never a burden.
Posted by: trog at Nov 20, 2006 11:15:56 AM
I have neither the gift of Knowledge nor Understanding but I prophezies anyway that there will come a time in the not too distant future that instead of coming to the Catholic Church in ones and twos an entire Episcopalian congregation, complete with priests and deacons will petition a Catholic bishop to be joined in union with Rome. At that point the Holy See will need to decide if they are willing to come to some kind of accommodation to permit this to happen and how it will effect our relationship as a Church with the greater Angelical community.
Posted by: TerryC at Nov 20, 2006 11:16:32 AM
Better educated.
Because treating human beings as though they were resource-sucking leeches instead of gift-bearing contributors is what intelligent stewardship is all about.
And count on Mr. Colbert to pick up this story.
Posted by: Rich Leonardi at Nov 20, 2006 11:16:54 AM
You shall know them by their fruits
Posted by: Consanescerion at Nov 20, 2006 11:17:54 AM
Think of it this way - if the Episcopal Church continues to be successful, in the manner in which Schori defines success, they will educate and contracept themselves entirely out of existence.
Posted by: Tim Ferguson at Nov 20, 2006 11:18:27 AM
As noted above, I sent a letter to Bishop Schori at 10:00am (EST), and recived a fairly lengthy and fairly complete response from Robert Goodfellow, "communications aide" who said that he was writing on the bishop's behalf.
Please write to them and ask for a reponse. Let's let as least Robert Goodfellow know how we feel.
Posted by: Tom Ryan at Nov 20, 2006 11:29:10 AM
The Presiding Bishop's lack of care and preparation for interviews is appalling. She has answered so many questions in "an unclear way" that I can no longer believe that those answers are accidental: She actually means what she says.
Marion has asked about other arrogant and elitist notions that the Presiding Bishop might have. Alas! They are too numerous to mention and, unfortunately, those beliefs are echoed and held by far too many in leadership positions in the Episcopal Church. I mourn daily for what has become of the denomination I was raised in. But then, when I was born, it was only beginning the path to apostasy which it has trod over my lifetime.
I, too, offer my apologies for the condescending arrogance offered up by the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church.
Posted by: Allen Lewis at Nov 20, 2006 11:29:36 AM
