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February 26, 2007
Okay, the Jesus tomb
If Titanic wasn't reason enough to despise James Cameron, he's now given us another meglomaniac fantasy: that he's single-handedly debunked Christianity. Yay! Thanks, James!
Because, you know - using DNA tests to determine if remains belong to Jesus, Mary or Mary Magdalene is...totally doable. And of course, Jesus (Yeshua, Joshua...etc..etc..) or Mary (actually Miriam...) weren't common names in the 1st century. Or, as my husband pointed out last night, "It's not like Judah wasn't the name of the whole, you know..people..."
It's nonsense, but you know what...Easter is coming!!! So, in the tradition of such things, someone must profit from the season, and Lord knows, it shouldn't just be Russel Stover.
(You probably remember that the "Gospel of Judas" excitement was played by National Geographic right before Easter last year)
Scripture scholar Ben Witherington's got the goods. Read him and be on your merry Lenten way:
2) there is no independent DNA control sample to compare to what was garnered from the bones in this tomb. By this I mean that the most the DNA evidence can show is that several of these folks are inter-related. Big deal. We would need an independent control sample from some member of Jesus' family to confirm that these were members of Jesus' family. We do not have that at all. In addition mitacondrial DNA does not reveal genetic coding or XY chromosome make up anyway. They would need nuclear DNA for that in any case. So the DNA stuff is probably thrown in to make this look more like a real scientific fact. Not so much.
3) Several of these ossuaries have very popular and familiar early Jewish names. As the statistics above show, the names Joseph and Joshua (Jesus) were two of the most common names in all of early Judaism. So was Mary. Indeed both Jesus’ mother and her sister were named Mary. This is the ancient equivalent of finding adjacent tombs with the names Smith and Jones. No big deal.
More from Scripture scholar Mark Goodacre
Archaelogist Dr. Leen Ritmeyer:
Will the world take heed to the comments of Amos Kloner, quoted in the Jerusalem Post who said that the documentary’s claims were “impossible” and “nonsense” and that there was “no likelihood that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb in Jerusalem”? Jesus and his family hailed from Nazareth in Galilee, as anyone with a shred of Bible knowledge knows and there was no reason for them to have a family tomb in Jerusalem. It is worth knowing that Jacobovici and Cameron are not original in their claim. The assertion that the family tomb of Jesus has been located was made in James D. Tabor, “The Jesus Dynasty, The Hidden Story of Jesus, His Royal family, and the Birth of Christianity” (2006).
Watch this theory go the way of all such contrived “sizzling” and “staggering” “discoveries”!
Posted by Amy Welborn | Permalink
Comments
Stuff like this makes me so mad -- why people would believe this ridiculous stuff is beyond me.
Jesus and his family would have NO INTEREST in having a tomb in Jerusalem. Why would he want to be laid to rest ANYWHERE besides his home world: Muria, the third planet in the Aldebaran star system? Hello! Have we learned nothing about our space prophet in the last 2,000 years?
(Ahem...no blasphemy intended...just a little sci-fi sarcasm...)
Posted by: Brandon A. Evans at Feb 26, 2007 9:35:58 AM
If James Cameron wasn't attached to this story,
I'd just put it down to "clap-trap." However,
THAT is NOT the case. I can't wait to see WHAT
happens next. Who knows, maybe Cameron is in
"cahoots" with Dan Brown. I say, keep an open mind!
Posted by: Bill Heyer at Feb 26, 2007 9:41:24 AM
Thank you Amy, for this post! I logged on this morning specifically to find info to debunk this ridiculousness. Thanks so much for the truth!
Posted by: 4HisChurch at Feb 26, 2007 9:42:05 AM
Be aware that Witherington bases some of his debunking on "what we know" about Jesus' brother James.
Posted by: Rich Leonardi at Feb 26, 2007 9:52:50 AM
This makes me even happier not to have seen Titanic than I already was.
Posted by: Ed the Roman at Feb 26, 2007 9:56:32 AM
Titanic - three and a half hours you'll never get back!
Posted by: Mark Windsor at Feb 26, 2007 10:29:46 AM
This is another example of what happens when you separate fides and ration--faith and reason.
Just as faith separated from reason leads quickly to fundamentalistism and fanaticism, so reason separated from faith leads quickly into pseudo-science and relativism
However, it behooves Catholics and all Christians to be able to respond to this---begin with 1 Corinthians 15 and then work through the four Gospel Resurrection Narratives
Posted by: Father Elijah at Feb 26, 2007 10:39:56 AM
We would need an independent control sample from some member of Jesus' family
Or, they could take a DNA sample from a consecrated host ;-)
Posted by: MH at Feb 26, 2007 10:48:38 AM
"The assertion that the family tomb of Jesus has been located was made in James D. Tabor, 'The Jesus Dynasty, The Hidden Story of Jesus, His Royal family, and the Birth of Christianity' (2006)."
Dr. James Tabor has a well-worn track record of believing and promoting nonsense about the history of early Christianity. Many years ago he was a member of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God, a seventh-day adventist sect that promoted all kinds of drivel, such as British Israelism and the conspiracy theory that Simon Magus, not Simon Peter, was the first Pope and was buried on Vatican Hill. Dr. Tabor is no longer an Armstrongist, and he has genuine credentials as a scholar, but like the Armstrongist he once was, he still thinks the true message of Jesus was distorted and suppressed, and he still has a yen for a "conspiracy theory" approach to early Christianity history. Dr. Tabor's theory is basically "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" without the stuff about the Order of Sion and Knights Templar. It's not surprising that someone like James Cameron would be attracted to such dubious and reckless speculations as Dr. Tabor promotes.
Posted by: Jordan Potter at Feb 26, 2007 11:14:30 AM
I do think we are going to have to offer a better rebuttal than the "those were all exceedingly common names back then" line. This may be true, but (speaking as a researcher) the statistical analysis that Cameron and his crew did of the probability of finding all the relevant names in one place is actually a reasonable way to conclude that this could be a family tomb. I don't know what the DNA analysis was supposed to prove.
For the record, I obviously believe this is bunk. I'm just suggesting that Cameron and Jacobavici anticipated the "common-names" defense a priori. Perhaps the statistical methods used (or the translation of the names themselves) were questionable.
Posted by: Fletch at Feb 26, 2007 11:20:39 AM
What bunch of baloney! Perhaps they could get DNA from the Shroud, but certainly not from that tomb, because, like, you know, He ... um... isn't there! Russell Stover chocolates are definitely better than Cameron's baloney any day, not just at Easter! As a Canadian, I'm ashamed to share common roots with Mr. Cameron. Sheesh ...
Posted by: Patricia Gonzalez at Feb 26, 2007 11:33:57 AM
Fletch, Ben Witherington quoted Bauckham to show that they botched the statistical analysis. He also has a few other cogent arguments that establish that this "Jesus tomb" theory is, um, dubious at best.
Posted by: Jordan Potter at Feb 26, 2007 11:35:46 AM
Jordan-
Thanks much for pointing that out! Thats what I get for not clicking the link before posting.
Posted by: Fletch at Feb 26, 2007 11:38:49 AM
Who comes up with this stuff?
I agree that it is important that Catholics/Christians be prepared to respond
to this idiocy. Thanks, Father Elijah.
Posted by: Lynn at Feb 26, 2007 12:13:09 PM
One of the backers of Cameron wanted Christians not to worry about being without a resurrection since they still have the appearances of Jesus after His death to comfort them in at least a portion of their former belief! First of all, those appearances just happened to include a Jesus eating real food which is pretty difficult to do with one's digestive system still remaining elsewhere! On top of the convenient "spin" suddenly attempting to debunk all Jesus contemporary, corroborative testimonies, the decades of real scientific studies promote an unexplainable explosion of energy coming through and witnessed by the real remnants of death of the only crucified man matching all details of that early witnessing of actual events. And, of course, we also have that little inconvenient question about even the proper translations of names within Cameron's little hoax. Let the games begin!
Posted by: chris K at Feb 26, 2007 12:39:59 PM
You know, they could prove all the relationships in that tomb and it would mean nothing. Where are the known living relatives to compare to? Gonna try Audrey Tautou?
Posted by: Ed the Roman at Feb 26, 2007 12:45:23 PM
Relax. DePaul's John Dominic Crossan is on the case and offering the media a uniquely Catholic perspective on the controversy:
If the bones of Jesus were to be found in an ossuary in Jerusalem -- and let's say they were definitely established to be the bones of Jesus -- would that destroy Christian faith? It certainly would not destroy my Christian faith. I leave what happens to bodies up to God.
Posted by: Rich Leonardi at Feb 26, 2007 1:01:14 PM
This is great stuff. It gives many of us a chance to reaffirm our faith. Its not like this is the first time such a statement has been made in our salvation history. The Spirit has guided us and will continue. I am hoping this will lead to some St. Paul conversions among those who doubt or persecute. It also is a great test to show us the fools in our midst such as a certain Today show co-host.
Posted by: pray for us at Feb 26, 2007 1:03:23 PM
for me the tomb findings have given me a renewed faith in my beliefs. i think they are extremely exciting and relevant.
for unbiased information be sure to check out the movie's official site at http://www.jesusfamilytomb.com
Posted by: anon at Feb 26, 2007 1:08:39 PM
+J.M.J+
If Jesus hadn't really risen from the dead, could Christianity's early enemies could have easily squelched His followers' claims of a Resurrection by PRODUCING THE CORPSE?
So why didn't they? Gee, could it perhaps be because there wasn't one?
So now we're supposed to believe that, during all the furor surrounding His death, His followers' subsequent claims that He rose from the dead and the tumultuous beginnings of Christianity, Jesus' body acutally mouldered away peacefully in a grave somewhere. Then His relatives collected His bones as usual and placed them in an ossuary in the family plot - without any early Christians or enemies of Christianity knowing that this was going on?
Sounds pretty crazy to me! The worst part is, though, that some people are sure to believe this tripe and lose their faith over it. That's what breaks my heart.
In Jesu et Maria,
Posted by: Rosemarie at Feb 26, 2007 1:11:41 PM
+J.M.J+
>>>for unbiased information be sure to check out the movie's official site
Ah, yes, "unbiased" information at the site set up by the very people promoting this nonsense and most likely to profit from it. Sure. Tell me another one.
GoAT
In Jesu et Maria,
Posted by: Rosemarie at Feb 26, 2007 1:14:20 PM
anon -
How would the movie's official site be "unbiased"? And too, this is the sixth time I've encountered the same exact reccomendation to "check out the movie's..." - it's excessively tedious.
Posted by: Drusilla at Feb 26, 2007 1:18:13 PM
Amy,
Nice job on this post. The info you've gathered will be very helpful to many!
I think the analysis that Witherington has done, especially in regard to the names frequency is really important given all the hype surrounding the 'statistical evidence' which suggests that the odds are 600:1 that this is NOT the tomb of Jesus. Those are pretty fantastic odds, no doubt!
I put together some other thoughts, especially in regard to the inscriptions, here:
http://christopherbutler.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/initial-impressions-of-the-jesus-tomb-discovered-in-talpiot-jerusalem/
Posted by: CB at Feb 26, 2007 1:33:23 PM
If the bones of Jesus were to be found in an ossuary in Jerusalem -- and let's say they were definitely established to be the bones of Jesus -- would that destroy Christian faith? It certainly would not destroy my Christian faith. I leave what happens to bodies up to God.
Sorry, but those kinds of self assurances are usually made by those with an already firmly established faith within the very core of self based upon having digested the Entire deposit of faith. Start meddling with that entirety and the Creed means nothing; the intended remaking of Christ as just like us effecting the very meaning of the Trinity as well as the conquering of sin and death through the resurrection, etc. It would go on and on with its ramifications - including the Assumption and the Eucharist in its Presence. Talk about slippery slopes! The continuing effort by all such egoists is to lesson the moral imperatives of such a Person Who is the fulfillment - Perfection - of all man's experiences destined for union with God. Without that kind of responsibility there is no need to worry about any repercussions due to sin. I always find the reasoning of "well, God could do anything He wanted" to be separated from Faith since He didn't so He couldn't!!
Posted by: chris K at Feb 26, 2007 2:15:46 PM
Titanic was pretty bad, but the reenactment of the actual sinking in that movie was awesome!!
Posted by: goodform at Feb 26, 2007 2:16:24 PM
