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May 24, 2007

Comments

Larry

I had kind of given up on the show but watched the last hour last night just out of curiosity to see what they would come up with. I was actually quite impressed. I, luckily, did not know about the flash forward ahead of time, and thus was surprised and pleased. Creative and compelling. Easily the best of the three season finales Lost has had. The other two were just plain WEAK. This one DELIVERED.

lickona

Look, I wept like a baby when Charlie crossed himself, but why exactly didn't he and Desmond just dive into the water and swim to the surface before everything flooded?

Nick

J: Either James Sawyer, or, if the producers wisely plan Seasons [4/5/6], Jacob.

Morning's Minion

As always with Lost, it created too many mysteries!

* What was Ben's plan, and why did he not kill the hostages (the guys is a mass murderer, so clearly it was not a matter of conscience)?

* Was Naomi with the Dharma initiative? And if they really couldn't find the island, what explains the food drop? Was Ben right that they were in immediate danger (Ben is a pathological liar, but he tells the truth about half the time)?

* Were they rescued immediately, or was there a further period on the island before the time in Jack's flash forwward?

* Is Jack's father alive in his flash forward? He seemed to be. Does that mean they exited the island into a parallel universe? If so, what else is different? Kate, for example, does not seem to be in jail!

* Who was in the coffin? If "J" is right, then Sawyer or Locke. But why would Locke have left the island? And if Sawyer, who was with Kate?

* Who were the woman and son rescued by Jack? Claire and Aaron? Juliette's sister and child? Or just random people? Could it be that, by leaving the island, they precipated a "course correction" in nature that was leading to all survivors to die? Is that what was driving Jack to despair and drug abuse?

* If Jack and Kate get back to the island, are they Adam and Eve in the cave?

* Is Jacob really Locke, or is that a figment of people's overly active imagination? Is he stuck in an extreme version of Desmond's time loop?

* Why does Patchy never seem to die?

Too many questions, not enough answers!

Jeff Ocken


I have nothing to back this up, but it would be quite a twist if the person who died was Ben.

amy

Matthew:

I'm guessing it was because Desmond's vision said he died and the rescue occured - he must have figured he *had* to die.

HOWEVER. I will make the case that we didn't actually see him dead. As is always the case with this show...you never know.

Larry

If they altered the past, did Germany win World War II?

Er...wait...that was a Star Trek episode. :)

lickona

I'll buy that.

We don't have TV at Casa Lickona. We started out watching Lost on DVD, since we came to the series after Season One was out. We heard Season Two wasn't as good, so we stayed away, but then broke down after IT was released on DVD. We heard Season Three was downright lame, but we broke down about midway through and started buying episodes off of iTunes. Then, when we had caught up, we started watching them on the ABC website a few days after they aired. For the last two episodes of the season, we hauled out an old 13" TV, stuck a length of steel wire in the back, ran the wire around the ceiling fan in the bedroom and over to the curtain rod, and watched it live. Whle I was rigging it up, the wife started singing Garbage's "I'm Not An Addict." Sigh.

Bender

About Charlie being the savior —- don’t forget that in one of his visions, we saw his mum, brother, and Claire say that Charlie was going to save them all -- but with a special emphasis of saving Aaron. In the second season episode "Fire and Water," Charlie has a vision of receiving a piano as a boy at Christmas, and his mother and brother keep telling him to save them, inferring that he will save them with music (which we now know is Good Vibrations). His mum says, "You're special, love. Someday you're going to get us out of here, all of us. Now, go on, play us a tune." Later, he has a vision of playing the piano in the surf, before it washes out to sea.

Jack’s references to his dad don’t prove that he is still alive. My impression was that the other doctor did think that Jack was delusional from the get go. He noticed that everything about Jack was odd and indicative of mental instability and/or drug/alcohol use. Besides, Christian Shepherd lost his medical license previously, and I doubt that he would have gotten it back.

Based on Kate’s reaction, the lack of other mourners, and Jack’s desire to see him, I agree that it was Locke in the box at the viewing. Jack is finally coming to realize that he’s an idiot (and always is) and that Locke was right, so that is why he was upset at seeing the obit. (and it definitely is not Ben, as some have suggested, because he ain't never leaving the Island)

But it is interesting that, on the Island at least, it appears that Locke can’t be killed (at least in any usual ways), just as Mikhail has overcome certain death twice now.

So, who is Naomi after all? If not connected to Penny, it still makes sense that she is connected to daddy Widmore and his empire, who/which is probably connected to Hanso and Dharma, which is why Ben would think them as being the bad guys. And how is it that Penny was just ready and waiting to be on the other end of the video-phone, at the right radio frequency, when Charlie entered the code?

Interesting that, at least some of the survivors, have finally taken a “take no prisoners” approach. Tom may have surrendered, but based on past events, Sawyer was right to say that he didn’t believe it. Keeping Ben alive is certain to turn around and bite Jack in the butt once again. In any event, I don’t see the Others/Hostiles/Original Inhabitants being all that eager to take back Ben as their leader.

Chris-2-4

My only comment regarding the "flash forward" is this:

If the "island" is indeed an island then it stands to reason they were rescued. But if it is not just an island then really everything is off the table and the flash forward doesn't really reveal anything.

On another note, I had begun to despair myself that the show and writers were just wandering with no particular destination. The news about the limited span of the show, wrapping up in 3 seasons, has given me a new hope that they have a purpose and a destination which shall be revealed to us in the end.

Chris Burgwald

During various interviews, the official podcasts, and Lost specials, Cuse & Lindelhof have made it clear that this is a story about men & women who are flawed yet heroic (i.e. real!), and how they will conquer their flaws. More recently, they indicated that by the end of the story, we'll know the past, present, and future of the characters (i.e. we won't need a "very special Lost reunion show" in 15 years). At the same time, I don't think that means that the flash forward from last night indicated *definitively* what the future will be... Jack (and probably Kate, too) didn't look like they'd exactly conquered their demons. So either the future is still in flux (the more likely scenario, to me), or there's more of the future (ahead of the first flash forward) yet to see.

In any case, I love this show!

Brian

Jack's in the coffin.

They're in a parallel universe which is why the plane had been found, the people were all dead, Jack's father is alive.

Jack went to his own funeral.

Brian

And that's why they're not supposed to leave the island of course.

Jordan Potter

No Brian, it's not Jack in the coffin. Jack said he was neither friend nor family of the deceased, and I would think that you'd could be said to be related to yourself.

And if it's Jack in the coffin, then how come everyone seemed quite at ease to the idea that he was still alive?

Even before I heard about the letter "J" on the obit, my guess was that it is Locke, Sawyer, or even Jacob. I think most likely it is Locke.

I suppose this "flash forward" is only a possible future -- a "what would happen if Jack's plan in the season finale succeeds" scenario. I don't think it necessarily means the survivors can't ever leave the island: they might be rescued, just not the way Jack was hoping for. (BTW, there seemed to be a suggestion that their rescue had come with certain conditions -- that they were supposed to avoid contact with each other, or that they couldn't tell anybody about the island.)

I hadn't heard any rumors about any flash forward, though, so I was puzzled throughout the entire show and quite surprised when Kate showed up at the airport. I'd been trying to figure out where in the chronology of Jack's life those scenes could fit -- it's after his divorce, but before his father's death??? For a moment I thought, "Okay now, how could Jack and Kate know each other before the plane crash?" Only then did I finally figure it out. So, I'm glad I didn't hear any rumors, or else it would have spoiled it for me.

Will

It's Locke. He is neither family nor friend (any more). Jack's response to the death was to attempt to convince Kate that Locke Was Right, and she isn't buying.
I assume that Sawyer is the "he" who would "wonder where I am".
Jack is stealing painkillers, and lying about his father still being around, because now HE has spinal cancer, and sees his only hope as getting cured by The Island.
On a larger scale: now that we are at the half-way point, the arc has reached its lowest trajectory and is reversing. Does this mean that in 4-6 we will continue getting flashforwards instead of flashbacks?

Or perhaps it will deal with their future, with flashbacks to the island.

I have not figure out how all this fits into the Unified Hurley Theory.

MIKHAIL BAKHUNIN? Come on... I keep waiting for someone to say "Sure, and I'm Karl Marx! Haven't seen you since the London Congress."

And while we are on the subject of television: What was the date on the "Outside Kyoto" flash?
We need a Hiro! (Especially if I have to wait nine months for more lost, AAAAAAAHHHHHHH!)

Morning's Minion

Seems like some sort of parallel universe thing. The island is somehow disconnected from time and space (years of Star Trek have warped my brain!). The problem is: you can't just leave the island and re-enter normal time. Things are different. Jack's father is alive, for one. How many other changes? And when you are traveling along in something that was not meant to happen, there is a "course correction", which is why all the survivors are dying. That is what Ben foresaw.

Mio

It seemed to me that the coffin looked smaller than a full-size adult coffin.

Or was I imagining that?

Sheila

Amy,
You and your readers have thought of everything, and then some. Great thinking here! Coupla things I wondered and somehow missed...how is it that Penny is keyed in on the major outgoing events on the island - when the magnetic force field thing was shut down by Desmond and those guys in the arctic caught it on radar, and then in this finale when Charlie cut off the signal jam, prompting her "incoming transmission"? And if she didn't send Naomi, how did Naomi get that photo of Penny and Des? And Morning's Minion says (probably correctly) that you can't leave the island and re-enter normal time...but didn't Desmond do that (and then come back again), hence his ability to know what's going to happen before it does?

And one more thing....was Walt really there, or was Locke just seeing things? What's up with that?

You guys ought to create a holdover series we can all enjoy in the interim while waiting for Lost to return.

inhocsig

I'm betting it's Ben in the coffin. Of the passengers, only Locke knows he's a mass murderer. (And a grown up Walt too.)

Locke didn't leave the island with the other passengers when the rescue came, because (1) here he can walk & heal from gunshot wounds miraculously, (2) he just plain likes it there. Oh and (3) he did commit murder by implanting a large bowie knife in the back of a woman using a cell phone infront of a bunch of witnesses.

Nice touch crossing himself, but Charlie should have taken a breath and swum out the porthole. Or as previously mentioned he and Desmond should have both taken a breath and swum for the surface. Swimming up is the easy direction.

Have we seen the last of the Russian? If Mikhail can take a sonic blast from the fence and a spear to the chest, probably he can take an underwater grenade explosion too.

Jinn must need glasses. He let down the team with bad aim. The SOS dentist took some scalps. Score one for us middle age guys well past their prime. Even Hurley got his first kill using a bus! Way to go big guy.

Why did Sawyer say after shooting Tom, "That's for taking the boy off the raft?" Sawyer was on his knees with Jack and Kate on the dock when Michael and Walt left in the fishing boat. He should have just left it at "well I don't believe you." or perhaps instead "I don't accept your surrender."

Jordan Potter

That wasn't really Walt, just as it wasn't really Ecko's brother, and it wasn't really Jack dead father. It was "the Island" talking to Locke, who had developed a close relationship with Walt before his father Michael turned murderer. I guess the Island chose to speak to Locke as Walt because of what Walt represents to Locke -- a boy who needs his father (kind of like what Locke was, until Ben seduced Locke into doing to his fahter what Ben had done to his own).

inhocsig

It's not a parallel universe, but an opposite universe. The opposite of a live character action television show is an animated character television show. It's the "Hanna-Barbera" universe come to life.

In the "real" world of the island, the cartoon characters are the opposite of what they are in 60's Saturday morning shows they came from.

An obese Hugo Hurley is really the skinny Norville "Shaggy" Rogers.

The unshaven tattooed Jack is the clean cut Fred Jones. Note that Freddy wears a scarf and Jack is always wiping sweat off with one.

"Take me in the bear cage,.. take me in the tent" Kate is the opposite of Velma Dinkley, "the woman in comfortable shoes" of Mystery, Inc.

Blonde, dangerous OBGYN Julia is the redheaded, danger-prone vain Daphne.

"Scooby-Doo", the constantly around & hungry Great Dane has as his opposite number, the "what's his name" seldom seen golden retriever Walt left behind.

The Scooby-Doo team travel the world in a tricked-out blue & green 60's Chevy Sportvan called the Mystery Machine. The Lost team travel the island in a brokendown blue & white VW bus.

Shaggy's drug of choice was marijuana. Charley's was heroin.

The Scooby-Do team solves mysteries involving ghosts and supernatural forces and at the end of every episode, the supernatural turns out to have a rational explanation. The Lost crew can't seem to solve anything definitively.

Cast members from Hanna-Barbera's Jonny Quest are also present on the island.

The strange, evil, clean shaven, father of a daughter, "other Ben is the alter ego of the straight, good, bearded, father of a son, Dr. Benton Quest.

Troubled, tragic, and adult Sawyer & Sayid are Jonny Quest and Haji all grown up and twisted.

Bald, formerly crippled and always a loser, John Locke is the blonde man of action - Race Bannon.

The two polar bears chasing the lost characters are the two Komodo dragons that chased Jonny and Haji.

I'm sure there are other comparisons.

o.h.

When Jack goes into the funeral home, you can see it's clearly in an African-American neighborhood; and the funeral director is also black. Funeral homes are among the most race-segregated businesses still around: it seems pretty clear that the writers were letting us know that it was a black person who had died. That leaves Michael, Walt, Rose, and Ekko as possible decedents. Walt would explain the smallish coffin (I'd noticed that too); Michael would explain the other survivors not showing up; if it was Rose, it could be that her cancer came back after she left the island with its immunity-granting powers, and that was one more reason for Jack to beat up on himself for having led them off the island. Ekko seems unlikely, since nobody would have been surprised that no family showed up.

Jordan Potter

"Why did Sawyer say after shooting Tom, 'That's for taking the boy off the raft?' Sawyer was on his knees with Jack and Kate on the dock when Michael and Walt left in the fishing boat. He should have just left it at 'well I don't believe you.' or perhaps instead 'I don't accept your surrender.'"

Sawyer was referring to the time when the survivors built a raft -- Sawyer, Jinn, Michael, and Walt left on the raft, but in the season finale cliffhanger of Season One, the Others, led by Tom (Mr. Friendly), came out in their own boat and attacked them. Sawyer tried to shoot at them, but got shot himself -- Walt was kidnapped by the Others, who set blew up the raft.

Sawyer vowed from that point that if he would get even with Mr. Friendly (kind of like his vow to find and kill Locke's dad -- Sawyer has big trouble forgiving people who have wronged him). So, when he had Tom in his power, he fulfilled his personal vow and killed him.

Sandra Miesel

I'm flattered that you first watched LOST on my recommendation. It's the only network series that I follow.

The finale was terrific! Alternate universes and strange warpings of space and time are clearly in play.

Charlie, unlike Eko, died redeemed. He couldn't have gotten through the porthole to escape. But if Desmond hadn't spared Mikail previously, he wouldn't have been there to kill the guardians and the mission could not have been completed.

Sawyer has made some halting progress towards redemption, but since being "conned" into killing Locke's father, he's sunk into a very dark place. Will his protectiveness towards children help him come back?

I think the "he" refered to my Kate at the end is Sawyer's son, not Sawyer.

Sheila

Aha! I'm not the only one who thinks Kate may have been referring to her son. She has already alluded to a possible pregnancy, which was a likely plot direction, given the circumstances.

Sandra, your colleague Carl Olson was the one who put me onto LOST. I was clueless about it before then....though after getting hooked on it, I'm only slightly less so now.

anonymous

"I'm Not an Addict" was by the one-hit-wonder band K's Choice, not Garbage.

Peggy

Huz and I watched last night (with millions of others slowing down the feed). I did not get any indication from Jack's reference to his father in the "flash-forward" scenes that his father was alive. I thought Jack took his dead father's place at the hospital, but apparently more recently replaced by a more stable surgeon.

Jordan Potter

No, Jack definitely refers to his father as still alive, challenging the other doctor that he could discipline/correct/admonish him only if he checks his father's blood alcohol first. Jack says something like, "If my blood alcohol is higher than my dad's, then you can get on me about drinking too much." Or something like that -- working from memory here. But it's clear that Jack's father must still be alive in this possible future.

lickona

Anon,
D'oh! My bad. Thanks for the correction.

Alan K. Henderson

I'm predicting that DHARMA or one of its sponsors has returned to reclaim the island, will hunt down and kill all the Othersexcept Ben who will be held prisoner, will let the Losties go home if they agree to keep quiet, and a few Others and Losties will elude the new boss in town and will become the new Hostiles.

Paul Levinson

Enjoyed the analysis. I actually sort of predicted the flip from flashbacks to flashforwards in my review the previous week of the Charlie Greatest Hits episode ... I thought the finale was a masterpiece ... Flashforwards....

Thomas Aquinas

No one is probably reading this thread any longer, but I just watched the finale. Haven't seen anyone make note of the rosary that was very prominently hanging from the mirror on the Shambala mini-bus Hurley used to become a hero. Was that there before? In particular was it in the Three Dog Night episode where they discovered the bus? I'm pretty sure it wasn't there when Ben offed his dad.

Thomas Aquinas

Nope. It was there when he offed him. So why is a rosary hanging from the mirror in a Dharma mini-bus?

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